Posts: 5598
Threads: 112
Joined: July 16, 2012
Reputation:
74
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:28 pm
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2014 at 4:30 pm by Ryantology.)
(January 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: All I want to know is why MitchBenn opposes the death penalty 100%! Is that too much to ask? Cause I have, about 3 times now! Someone respond, i'm afraid i've died and now i'm a ghost, haunting the system, unable to make contact with the living!
Since I am in complete agreement with him, I'll respond.
Quite simply, I am opposed to ending a person's life against their will, even if they've done very terrible things. Only in immediate defense of someone's life would I make an exception, and only if there were either no other options nor enough time to look for any. Revenge fixes nothing and only makes more killers.
And as noted several times throughout this thread, our ability to determine guilt is far less sophisticated than it should be in taking such permanent actions (though, I wouldn't care even if it was possible to determine guilt beyond any doubt).
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2014 at 4:44 pm by Chad32.)
(January 27, 2014 at 2:11 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I'd sooner support life sentence instead of death penalty.
It has been made abundantly clear that the death penalty does not deter certain individuals from carrying out those despicable actions. It then does not work as a deterrent.... it most certainly is not a punishment as the punished party will not live to learn from said punishment.
At most, it is the elimination of an individual from society.
Life in prison does that, too.... and prevents any faulty system from killing an innocent person.
If anything is a deterent, that would be secondary to helping individuals overcome their problems, or getting rid of individuals. Life in prison doesn't remove someone from society. It contains them, but they could get out., They could still hurt anyone that has to come near them to give food and such. They're still a danger. Someone given life could escape, and requires a system in which to keep them heavily contained. Death is just death. Mr serial killer can't hurt anyone anymore because he's dead.
Also yes death is punishment. It's pretty much the ultimate punishment.
Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:41 pm
Yai i'm alive! But what about all the money spent to keep a person in prison for the rest of their life? I assume thats what you want to do rather then release them? Imagine how much money could be saved!
I don't think the death penalty is revenge, its justice and balance. A serial killer who has killed loads of people doesn't deserve death, thats too easy. I would prefer that he spend life in jail and suffer and possibly feel some remorse but its just not practical any more. I'm always the functionalist! 
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Posts: 5598
Threads: 112
Joined: July 16, 2012
Reputation:
74
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Might as well execute any violent criminal, then.
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:45 pm
Might as well get rid of the justice system too, if we're going to get into extremes.
Posts: 4664
Threads: 100
Joined: November 22, 2013
Reputation:
39
Re: RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:46 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Raeven Wrote: (January 27, 2014 at 12:10 pm)KUSA Wrote: What if someone brutally raped and murdered your children (or other loved one) and made you watch? Also they eviscerated them and made you wear there internal organs on your body. And they cut their genitals off and forced you to eat them. After that they cut the head off and skull fucked them. Lastly they took the impregnated brain matter and fried it up for supper and made you eat some.
What about then?
Here's the problem with your reasoning: You're assuming the viciousness of the act is the basis and reason for carrying out a sentence of death. Eye for an eye, so to speak. It's not.
There is no 100% certainty that you've got the right person. In fact, we get it wrong one-sixth of the time. That's right -- statistics show that out of every six folks executed for their crimes, one of them was innocent. Is that an acceptable level of "collateral damage" to you? Even one in one hundred? Not to me. Not one, not ever. And if it is to you, then we'll let you be the one to go explain that to the wrongfully-executed person's family about that. Oh, and the jurors who wrongfully convicted, too. All of those folks will be changed and haunted for a lifetime over that "collateral damage."
Ahhh, yes, but what about those wonderful forensics? What about that DNA evidence? Sorry, but that's a myth perpetrated by too many crime shows on the tee vee. In reality, DNA evidence is not nearly as common or available as people think. It is easily tainted. It is often simply unavailable. Since most heinous acts such as murder generally happen in private, there are almost always only two people who know what really happened -- and one of them is dead. So... what's "iron-clad" evidence to you?
Eye witness testimony? Nothing more unreliable in the world.
Circumstantial evidence? In a court of law, it is considered as persuasive as direct evidence.
A confession? I've seen more than one of those that were false.
And anyway, doesn't the position of 100% certainty basically only assure that the dumb ones get put to death? If a horrible, calculating SMART murderer comes along and manages to dodge certainty, it's ok for him to "enjoy" life in prison, but the stupid one who left some sperm behind gets the needle? I'm still working out the justice on this one...
Now do you understand the flaws in your reasoning?
Why even put them in prison then? They might be innocent. You wouldn't want to lock up an innocent person would you?
Posts: 1572
Threads: 26
Joined: September 18, 2013
Reputation:
10
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:47 pm
Statistics suggest that a country which carries out the death penalty normalizes killing in the culture of its population and thus increases the level of violence and murder in that society. In the US the murder rate is known to spike just after an execution.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
- Esquilax
Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
Posts: 4664
Threads: 100
Joined: November 22, 2013
Reputation:
39
Re: RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:49 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 12:55 pm)MitchBenn Wrote: (January 27, 2014 at 12:49 pm)KUSA Wrote: Your stupidity I guess.
Smooth.
Ok, try this. Suppose all the above happened and the evidence pointed to you having done it.
Still in favour?
I would still be in favor of it even if I were absolutely innocent. Why? I would rather be dead than be in jail for life. Really the death penalty is an act of mercy even if it is driven by vengeance.
Posts: 117
Threads: 2
Joined: October 20, 2013
Reputation:
3
RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 4:58 pm
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2014 at 5:16 pm by MitchBenn.)
As I said on an earlier thread, I was born and raised in a secular household; I've only ever seen religion from the outside. Seen from the outside religion just looks silly.
I'm British. Britain abolished the death penalty some years before I was born. I've only ever seen the death penalty from the outside. Seen from the outside the death penalty just looks barbaric.
(January 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: All I want to know is why MitchBenn opposes the death penalty 100%! Is that too much to ask? Cause I have, about 3 times now! Someone respond, i'm afraid i've died and now i'm a ghost, haunting the system, unable to make contact with the living!
Well there's not much point in opposing it 90% is there?
Posts: 4664
Threads: 100
Joined: November 22, 2013
Reputation:
39
Re: RE: Do atheist belive in capital punishment
January 27, 2014 at 5:19 pm
(January 27, 2014 at 4:47 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: Statistics suggest that a country which carries out the death penalty normalizes killing in the culture of its population and thus increases the level of violence and murder in that society. In the US the murder rate is known to spike just after an execution.
And you have scientific evidence that there is a direct correlation between the two?
Sorry but I never felt like killing someone after an execution.
|
