The Bible Takes It Up The Ass, Again!

[Esquilax]

The atheist and others here have shown exactly how dishonest they are, you all ask for factual proof of things from scripture, when it comes you ignore it like the plague because what you asked for makes you look like an idiot (Min). You never tried to disprove what Drich gave you, you just ignored the facts that were given and came with your usual tripe to avoid any embarrassment. Each one of you is guilty of this and, showing others how you are dishonest not just with Christians but among yourselves. I've printed this off to use in future debates here where I live to show how dishonest atheist are, thanks for the ammunition and I'm sure atheist here will be dumb founded by the truth you are revealing about atheist and their only desire, to run down Christianity at all cost. You've payed a high price here to protect you god Min. Now who are you going to blame for your weak minded stupidity and, the atheist that have to come up against such dishonesty in the future will be rather upset with you guys, again thanks for the ammunition, I will enjoy dropping this bomb.

Oh, really, GC? That's what you got out of this? So, this on the second page, then:

Really Drich? Really? You're going to move Ur now?

Not that I give a flying fuck but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur - says its in Iraq.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/07/resea...m?lang=eng - Northwestern Turkey / Southern Syria

http://www.tribulationhoax.com/abraham.html - Iraq (I think)

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/archaeol...013/04/05/ - Iraq

Those were the first 4 references to the google search "Where was the land of Ur where Abraham came from?"

Nobody is putting it anywhere near Egypt.

Everyone seems to agree he went to Haran (which is in Iraq) and was heading in the direction of modern day Israel.

You can't invent your way out of this one.

Is that just... imaginary? It doesn't exist?

Who's the dishonest one, here?

Just pretending that those refutations don't exist doesn't mean we're dishonest, GC. It means you're a lying moron. The fact that you're willing to cherry pick to give yourself "ammunition" against atheists just demonstrates that further, you petty little shit.

[Cyberman]

Who is this atheist of which you speak, GC? Or are plurals just something that happen to other people?

[max-greece]

Well despite certain accusations and in the interests of fairness, assuming there were Camels in Egypt at the time (I do not know for sure one way or another) the anachronism doesn't appear to be as strong as it first did.

The earliest reference I can find to camels in the Bible is in Genesis 12, 16.

According to the story Abram has left Canaan during a famine and gone to stay in Egypt:

10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, "I know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'This is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you." 14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that she was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaoh's officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels. 17 But the LORD inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram's wife Sarai. 18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. "What have you done to me?" he said. "Why didn't you tell me she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!" 20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had.

From the above (bold) it appears that Abram picked up camels in Egypt. The story itself is another typically horrible image of God, of course, inflicting diseases on the Egyptians due to Pharoah taking Abram's wife Sarah as his own (thinking her to be Abram's sister and therefore not his fault).

Therefore, again subject to there being domesticated camels in Egypt, I don't see the issue.

Further, its not unreasonable that there is no evidence of camels in Canaan during the period as their use may not have been widespread. In fact Abram could even have been the only one in the region to have them on his return.

Have to score one for Drich on this occasion - unless I am missing something....

[Ryantology]

PS, to Min, the elephant has yet to be domesticated but is used for heavy task all the time, so who made up the rule that camels had to be domesticated to use as beasts of burden before they were domesticated.

I would personally suggest that the act of training an animal to perform directed work or to otherwise serve human purposes is pretty much the definition of the word 'domestication', but I'll defer to the guy who can't even pluralize the word 'atheists' despite attempting to do so multiple times in a single post.

[Esquilax]

I would personally suggest that the act of training an animal to perform directed work or to otherwise serve human purposes is pretty much the definition of the word 'domestication', but I'll defer to the guy who can't even pluralize the word 'atheists' despite attempting to do so multiple times in a single post.

Given that GC himself seems barely housebroken, it's probably no surprise that he doesn't know what domestication is.

Given that he has to twist the meaning of every word under the sun in order to make them fit his holy book, it's even less of a surprise that he has such a hard time with them.

[Tonus]

The earliest reference I can find to camels in the Bible is in Genesis 12, 16.

According to the story Abram has left Canaan during a famine and gone to stay in Egypt:

If Ur was located somewhere in the area where Iraq is today, then that was quite a long trip to make on foot during a famine. It's interesting to see that Abram has such little faith in god at this point that he decides he'll lie to Pharaoh to avoid being killed, and winds up making out like a bandit. The story could be interpreted to show that he kept all of the gifts he received as a sort of dowry for his "sister."

It should be obvious that a person writing these stories many centuries after the period in question would mention camels in Egypt. And if writing these as moral tales, would not worry about having an elderly couple drag their large entourage 400-800 miles across a pretty inhospitable land during a famine. If this is what passes for putting those uppity atheists in our place, it's a pretty poor effort.

[Bad Wolf]

Sorry GC, I fail to see the dishonesty of my fellow atheists here. Could you reiterate why you think this and then maybe I will be able to understand?

[max-greece]

The earliest reference I can find to camels in the Bible is in Genesis 12, 16.

According to the story Abram has left Canaan during a famine and gone to stay in Egypt:

If Ur was located somewhere in the area where Iraq is today, then that was quite a long trip to make on foot during a famine. It's interesting to see that Abram has such little faith in god at this point that he decides he'll lie to Pharaoh to avoid being killed, and winds up making out like a bandit. The story could be interpreted to show that he kept all of the gifts he received as a sort of dowry for his "sister."

It should be obvious that a person writing these stories many centuries after the period in question would mention camels in Egypt. And if writing these as moral tales, would not worry about having an elderly couple drag their large entourage 400-800 miles across a pretty inhospitable land during a famine. If this is what passes for putting those uppity atheists in our place, it's a pretty poor effort.

Let me just clarify something. I am not making any reference to the credibility of the story, its morality or anything else beyond the fact that, as stated, the incorporation of camels into the story doesn't appear to be all that problematic.

Actually I'd argue it is the least problematic element of the whole thing. I too pondered on the length of the journey and its feasibility for a man in his 70's.

Therefore - strictly in terms of the OP and Drich's response I'm going with plausible for the camel bit. The rest? Nah.

[truthBtold]

GC did god send u on a mission to atheist websites. To preach the word of god, to defend YOUR faith? If god knows everything then he set u up for failure because he knows that atheists are smarter that theist. Its true because..... well.... its true.... the wheels on the bus go round and round... !!

[EvolutionKills]

The atheist and others here have shown exactly how dishonest they are, you all ask for factual proof of things from scripture, when it comes you ignore it like the plague because what you asked for makes you look like an idiot (Min). You never tried to disprove what Drich gave you, you just ignored the facts that were given and came with your usual tripe to avoid any embarrassment. Each one of you is guilty of this and, showing others how you are dishonest not just with Christians but among yourselves. I've printed this off to use in future debates here where I live to show how dishonest atheist are, thanks for the ammunition and I'm sure atheist here will be dumb founded by the truth you are revealing about atheist and their only desire, to run down Christianity at all cost. You've payed a high price here to protect you god Min. Now who are you going to blame for your weak minded stupidity and, the atheist that have to come up against such dishonesty in the future will be rather upset with you guys, again thanks for the ammunition, I will enjoy dropping this bomb.

GC

PS, to Min, the elephant has yet to be domesticated but is used for heavy task all the time, so who made up the rule that camels had to be domesticated to use as beasts of burden before they were domesticated.

I'm sorry, how is the evidence of camels (or lack thereof) a validation for floods, divine plagues, or any other miraculous claim in that book? Each claim must be evaluated separately. For example; simply saying that Jesus ate a fish (a simple plausible claim, people eat fish all the time) doesn't count as evidence towards his claim to being the resurrected son of a god, even if you have evidence that plenty of people ate fish during that time and place in history....