Ever Feel Guilty?

[SteelCurtain]

I have experienced this feeling. The good thing is that I have never had these conversations with just a schmo that I met on the street never to talk to again. I don't think I would feel comfortable doing that. So the people I have had these "de-conversion" experiences with have been good friends of mine, people who I'm at least marginally close with, people that I talk to regularly. So I am there for them to dig them out of that sort of 'depression of stark realization' that can happen to anyone who realizes that this is it. But eventually, most people who realize this also realize that it really in most ways makes life more grand.

So the guilt I have felt is fleeting and is quickly replaced with a kinship that is rewarding.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

No, I'm a psychopath and I don't feel guilt.

Okay, yes, I feel guilty when my mom, brother, and I make fun of religion in front of my dad because there's still a part of him that believes (or wants to believe), even though he's gone so far as to list himself as an atheist on Facebook.

[Mudhammam]

I've discussed religion (or lack of) with plenty of people IRL. A lot of people, after talking to me, say something like "I'm starting to question things now" or "I've never thought of it like that!", etc.

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I feel like a lot of the people I talk to aren't well prepared and don't really know how to debate, so I also feel kind of condescending when I try to explain my atheism. Not ALL the time, but with my mom for example. She's always been religious, and in the month since I "came out", she told me she doesn't know what to believe anymore. I'm happy...but kind of sad that she's sad. Or something.

Do you guys ever have any reservations when you effectively "un-indoctrinate" someone?

I thought this was going to be about feeling guilt in general, in which yes, it would be sociopathic not to when the situations demand it.

Indoctrinating someone is not that situation. Sometimes I wonder if I have really lost that evangelical edge the Christians instilled in me because I feel it is almost my duty to myself and mankind to do everything I can to plant the seeds that may lead to a person's indoctrination. It's probably in a way like saving someone, redeeming them, helping them to be able to experience the one real life they will ever have for what it truly is--heinous and terrifying and beautiful and amazing (all largely depending on us as individuals and as a group) all at the same time.


What a person believes matters. Religion poisons everything.
Sorry but that felt bold.

[Bad Writer]

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I'm having this kind of feeling right now with my mormon penpal. There is one caveat that makes me feel a whole lot better about the situation and that is that she was the one that wanted to talk about religion so I don't feel all that bad about making her question her beliefs. That's actually a good thing, IMO.

The part that I feel bad about is that if I do end up causing her to question her beliefs to the point where she goes to her bishop or stake president or something asking questions and is seen as a dissenter, there is the possibility that she could be kicked out of her ward and loose her social and support structure - let alone whether our conversation ends up with her leaving the LDS church all together.

It's a strange situation to be caught in.

She probably won't get disfellowshipped or kicked out unless she begins acting against/teaching contrary to the doctrines of her Church. From what I gather in our conversations she seems pretty quiet at church, so that might actually be a good thing for her.

I've stopped actively trying to talk to my family members about the issues of religion; I just always remind them that if they bring up anything pertaining to their church when speaking to me, then the topic is fair game.

[Fromper]

Huh. I don't even understand this conversation.

I'm not the loudest person around, and I rarely get into religious conversations, so "deconverting" people isn't something I have any experience with. I sometimes feel guilty about not doing enough to get people to question their prejudices and beliefs, though that's usually in relation to other topics, not religion.

Why would you ever feel guilty about telling anyone your honest opinion, or encouraging them to honestly examine their own preconceived notions?

[OfMiceAndMen]

I've discussed religion (or lack of) with plenty of people IRL. A lot of people, after talking to me, say something like "I'm starting to question things now" or "I've never thought of it like that!", etc.

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I feel like a lot of the people I talk to aren't well prepared and don't really know how to debate, so I also feel kind of condescending when I try to explain my atheism. Not ALL the time, but with my mom for example. She's always been religious, and in the month since I "came out", she told me she doesn't know what to believe anymore. I'm happy...but kind of sad that she's sad. Or something.

Do you guys ever have any reservations when you effectively "un-indoctrinate" someone?

No. Ignorance is not bliss.

[The Valkyrie]

I don't see it as my job to deconvert people.

If I can get them thinking, I'm perfectly happy.

[thesummerqueen]

Not really. I don't set out to deconvert people or destroy their world - just to get facts straight. I've had my little delusions about various things other than religion shattered before and I survived. Barring severe mental or emotional problems, most other people do too.

[Minimalist]

No more than if I gave them an antibiotic to cure an infection.

[Jovanian Teapot]

I feel pretty strongly about this topic, so I’m going to outline my argument.
I am a militant atheist. Here it is, as I define it.
Militant atheist- an atheist who actively pursues religious discourse.
This in NO way implies that i get violent, or that i persecute people who disagree with me, or anything of that sort. i understand that militant carries some very strong connotations, so you should consider the definition i provided while you consider the rest of my argument.
I contend that militant atheism is not only justifiable, but necessary.

As to its justifiability,

1) Freedom of speech. Im not going to go any further because this is a pretty boring argument to make, and it seems like most would agree that I should be allowed to voice my opinion.
2) Religion gives license to people of that religion to justify their abhorrent behavior. To me, this means that while the majority of believers do not go about slashing each other’s throats out, any sense of religious tolerance has to be thrown out because by tolerating religious reasoning, you allow for religion to give license to religious people to justify their behavior, as stated above. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that i make fun of people for thinking differently. it just means that talking about religion as if it were a valid, justifiable opinion does not fly with me.
3) There does not seem to be any real danger in engaging any willing audience in discussion. So, by actively trying to engage people in the discussion while allowing them to abstain from participation, I allow for a meaningful, bipartisan dialogue to take place. If someone is uncomfortable talking about religion, i wont push the subject. however, that does not mean that i respect their ideas. it simply means that i take the conversation to someone who is interested (which usually happens to be someone nearby)

As to its necessity,

1) Religion as a whole promotes a pseudoscientific view of the world. A pseudoscientific view of the world is counterproductive to the growth of human society, and so there is to be no leniency toward its expression as a legitimate alternative view.
2) On the contrary, a secular world view is conducive to intellectual growth, thereby encouraging general human flourishing. Thus, a secular world view is necessary for the optimal expansion of human society
3) Childhood indoctrination hinders free thinking and critical reasoning skills that are required for a human to grow intellectually and emotionally.


I’m not gonna say I don’t get the occasional wave of sadness when I see someone questioning their own ideas. I have realized that although we may cause incredible pain and discomfort initially, as an end we have done the right thing by freeing their reasoning process from the iron-age grip of faith-reasoning. It seems to me that taking away religion from some people has the same effect as making a drug addict quit cold turkey. They mentally withdraw. They deny. They ‘Hate You!!’ (as my sister did [for a time]), but in the end they will benefit greatly from the change. I know this seems very similar to the reasoning for religious proselytizing, so I will argue to the contrary very briefly (if I can). The main reason that this is significantly different from religious proselytization is that by showing the contradictions that are inherent to their dogmatic beliefs, you are encouraging skepticism rather than telling them what to think. When I argue with theists (not just Christians [although in my area, as you may know, creationists are suffocatingly common ]), I do not argue that GOD DOESN’T EXIST; I simply show them how their religion is unreasonable in its claims. Nowhere do I encourage any set of dogma in its place.
At this point, it is important to note that in some extreme cases, taking religion away from someone is not necessarily an ethically sound thing to do (i.e. some child with a terminal illness deserves to be as happy as he/she possibly can for as long as he/she can). This way, you can certainly argue that religion serves as some type of hallucinogenic medicine that relieves mental anguish (if only temporarily). Even in this case, there is much to be argued concerning whether or not the child should be lied to so that the child can feel better about his/her predicament.
It does not make you or I an asshole to go about showing people the inconsistencies with their belief system.
Apathy is not a noble stance when considering the concept of religion, nor is nonchalance or tolerance.
Just as a note, calling me an asshole, bigot, elitist, what have you does nothing unless you justify your labeling of me. It doesn’t much bother me and I can take it at face value, but don’t insult me by claiming something without at least attempting to justify it.
Disclaimer: I DON’T go about pestering people. I think my definition of militant atheism solidly describes my view of it.