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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 17, 2009 at 1:34 am
(October 29, 2008 at 6:14 am)Bungy Wrote: Does the bible say to believe without doubt and if so what chapter, verse etc.. anyone know
John 20:24-29 (King James Version)
24.But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25.The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26.And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27.Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28.And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29.Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
In the first few verses Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to his apostles and Thomas was not present. After being told of it he did not believe, when Jesus made a second appearance and Thomas requested proof was granted he then called him lord. But was chastised for believing because he saw and was told that those that believed without seeing were blessed. In other words it is a virtue to believe without evidence. The second text is self explanatory. I hope this is what you were looking for bungy. If not I can always find more, lots more.
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 17, 2009 at 2:17 am
(October 28, 2008 at 3:59 pm)bozo Wrote: Turning yet again to TGD and Dawkins' spectrum of probability on god's existence, it seems to me that believers simply have to put themselves in cat.1 strong theist. Unlike us, who assess the probability and I suspect overwhelmingly claim cat.6 de facto atheist, their faith demands no question as to it being 100% certain that god exists. Poor deluded fools! And because they are so afflicted, rational argument/debate is impossible, so I either ridicule or bait them! I prefer gummi bears for bait, but that will work.
I would say I'm a 2 on dawkin's scale. I have never yet met a theist that is a one. While their vehemency may differ greatly than mine. Most Christians I've met if they had 100% belief in God would have "faith to move mountains" and then try and move them. I would disagree with your supposition and your allusion to unthinking Christians. Knowledgeable Ignorance is one of the foundations of Western skepticism. While I have a peace about a solution to the problem of God, I've arrived there from my own philosophical and scientic if skepticism, not by merely ignoring truthes and rationality!
(October 28, 2008 at 6:40 am)Bungy Wrote: What is the true definition of the word "FAITH" in your opinion, according to the bible?
Is faith 100% commitment or can it be less than that and still be faith?
If someone says they don't know for sure 100% isn't that an agnostic theist?
Does the bible say to believe without doubt and if so what chapter, verse etc.. or does it tell it's readers it's O.K to say "I'm not 100% sure"?
Anyone care to comment?
Here I'll list a few with the most common faith quote for Christians first.
(Bible)
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move.
Matthew 17:20
The ear tests words as the tongue tastes food.
Job 34:3
In the Lord, put your trust.
Psalms 11:1
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:8
If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believeth.
Mark 9:23
(Quran)
2.39. But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.
2.257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).
3:118. O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.
3.141. Allah's object also is to purge those that are true in Faith and to deprive of blessing Those that resist Faith.
Some have defined faith here as belief. Since you asked for my definition of faith from the perspective of my Christianinty, here goes: Faith is belief in God, as simple as that. No picking words carefully just that you believe in what God is and he worls in your life.
My personal definition of faith is a little different though. It is the convition of the truth that, while God can not be proven/unproven absolutely, he exists and is testifiable to; from an individual perspective.
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 17, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I am not up to arguing someone that takes these things on faith, and personal experiences (aka "individual perspective"). There is no evidence for either one, being that faith's definition is so.
--- RDW, 17
" Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
" I don't believe in [any] god[s]. I believe in man - his strength, his possibilities, his reason." - Gherman Titov, Soviet cosmonaut
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 18, 2009 at 12:50 am
tackattack said "My personal definition of faith is a little different though. It is the conviction of the truth that, while God can not be proven/unproven absolutely, he exists and is testifiable to; from an individual perspective."
I disagree with you here in stating in your own words that the existence of god itself is a "truth" and that he "exist". Faith itself is not a fact and your individual perspective is just that. Subjective evidence or in this case declarations of certitude do not qualify as objective facts.
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 12:02 am
I had Faith once, then she caught me cheating with her sisters Hope and Charity.
"On Earth as it is in Heaven, the Cosmic Roots of the Bible" available on the Amazon.
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 12:15 am
Quote:I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move.
Wonder if any mountain has ever been moved in such a manner?
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I see little difference in the words trust and faith. So for my Christian faith I would describe it as trusting in where the evidence best points.
I think faith is more of a choice and action rather than a feeling. You can't help doubt so your faith (which is a choice) can't rest upon if you feel doubt or not. In fact I think the more doubt you have the more faith that is possible.
It isn't humanly possible to believe all the time without doubt.
I think it is more likely to choose to be sure (100%) of your belief through faith. I have doubts, more than most Christians I'ld think, but I can say that when it comes down to it I do believe (maybe even 100%). Faith is there to counter act the irrationality and ignorance of doubt. Not all doubt is irrationality and ignorance but it can be.
Hope that makes sense.
Also hey guys after being gone for a while.
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Quote:where the evidence best points.
Ah....so you think you have "evidence?"
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 7:48 pm
My use of the word evidence reffers to reason and what I've experienced through life leads me to believe.
Not repeatable results as some people want.... sadly not everything is repeatable and common sense must be used
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Faith, what is it?
December 19, 2009 at 8:26 pm
So, IOW, you have "belief" and not "evidence."
Don't feel bad. None of the rest of you have any evidence, either.
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