Why It Is Not Too Late To Repent And Turn To Christ

[Revelation777]

Where did you get that definition of sin? If you don't believe in a God, then how can you define morality? Who defines what is right or wrong?

You insult yourself, Rev: personally, I don't think you're that stunted that you don't know you live in a world where you can reliably predict what will hurt or benefit people, and plan your actions accordingly. I'm not going to go to my usual argument, just point out that it's entirely possible to know what's right or wrong based on the reality you inhabit, and that having a "who" define morality means you don't have a moral system at all, just fiat commands.

If god commanded you to do something that you, right now, know to be wrong, would that make it right?

If yes, then you don't have morality, just obedience.

If no, then you have morality, and god evidently isn't required for it to exist.

Dear Esquilax,
I can find that post where you gave me a link. Can you private message me that link?
Thanks

P.S. - I have faith that the standards and rules that a most righteous God has established that if I obey them then I will be moral.

[Rampant.A.I.]

Let's get this straight, buttercup. "Sin" is defined as a transgression against divine law. You and fellow believers, going back thousands of years, have utterly failed to establish that any such thing as divine law exists. I don't believe it does.

Therefore, I have never sinned -- not once, not ever -- and neither have you or anyone else.

On the other hand, people may commit crimes, misdemeanors, slights, and other bad acts. Ethical people make up for their bad acts on their own -- no imaginary deities needed; when possible, they make amends or reparation directly to the people affected by their bad acts. IMO, Christians who practice only substitutional atonement are NOT moral.

Where did you get that definition of sin? If you don't believe in a God, then how can you define morality? Who defines what is right or wrong?

You haven't actually learned anything since coming here at all, have you?

Otherwise, how can you reset to "without God there is no morality"?

What is your support for this assertion? Why do you believe morality requires a parental figure for rational people to behave morally?

Why do most serial killers have faith in God, and why with their knowledge of God is does morality seem not to exist?

Gary Ridgeway, Pentecostal Christian, murdered 60 women.

Pedro Alonzo Lopez, Christian, murdered and occasionally raped more than 350 children.

Jeffrey Dahmer, at least 17 victims, Christian.

John Wayne Gacy, raped and murdered more than 33 children.

Albert Fish, Christian, beaten at St. John's orphanage before going on to murder and cannibalize multiple children.

Ted Bundy, Mormon. 36 or more victims.

[Esquilax]

Dear Esquilax,
I can find that post where you gave me a link. Can you private message me that link?
Thanks

Which link are you referring to? I can't recall even making mention of a link to you lately.

P.S. - I have faith that the standards and rules that a most righteous God has established that if I obey them then I will be moral.

That's... problematic on its own, but I think you missed my point, so let me rephrase: if god were to change those standards and rules of his tomorrow, if he were to come down from heaven to you personally and say that for you, killing indiscriminately is now not only moral, but actually demanded, would that make it moral, and more importantly, would you do it?

Please don't dodge the way most others we ask this question to would, and say that god wouldn't do that, or that you would assume you'd had a hallucination rather than thinking it was really god. For the purposes of this hypothetical, you know, demonstrably, that it was god, and that he did indeed give those orders. How would you answer?

[Tonus]

God will never be out of style.

Well, at least you seem to recognize that he's a fad.

Where did you get that definition of sin? If you don't believe in a God, then how can you define morality? Who defines what is right or wrong?

Individuals do. Communities do. Societies do. Governments. Nations.

Humans.

How do you think religious believers can find god to be moral or good, without first having determined a set of standards by which to judge? Many parents will teach their children proper behavior by explaining the possible consequences of their actions. Other parents will fall back on the lazy "because I said so" approach. Which do you think is more effective? And did you realize that the latter approach is the "Biblical" one?

[Tartarus Sauce]

Dear Friends,
Jesus paid a great price on the cross so that we can be saved.

Well if he went to such great lengths to die for my sins, not living each one up to its maximum potential would just be fucking ungrateful, now wouldn't it?

[The Valkyrie]

[font=Verdana][font=Tahoma]Dear Friends,
Jesus paid a great price on the cross so that we can be saved.

Well if he went to such great lengths to die for my sins, not living each one up to its maximum potential would just be fucking ungrateful, now wouldn't it?

Some excruciating pain, death for a few days, and then becomes emperor of the universe.

Hardly a great price.

[Minimalist]

Some excruciating pain

Not according to the Docetists.

In Christian terminology, docetism (from the Greek δοκεῖν/δόκησις dokein (to seem) /dókēsis (apparition, phantom),[1][2] according to Norbert Brox, is defined narrowly as "the doctrine according to which the phenomenon of Christ, his historical and bodily existence, and thus above all the human form of Jesus, was altogether mere semblance without any true reality." [3][4] Broadly it is taken as the belief that Jesus only seemed to be human, and that his human form was an illusion.

[Brian37]

Well if he went to such great lengths to die for my sins, not living each one up to its maximum potential would just be fucking ungrateful, now wouldn't it?

Some excruciating pain, death for a few days, and then becomes emperor of the universe.

Hardly a great price.

A "great price" would be not existing before you are born, then dying on a beach in France fighting fascism without the expectation of personal fame or ass kissing, dying on that beach and never coming back or becoming famous.

Jesus is a man/God so according to them he was around for eternity prior to his human form, is only in physical pain for a few hours, then goes right back to being a God without staying dead. That seems more like a pin prick, a slight inconvenience. And on top of not being a sacrifice why does he do it? For his own self glorification. Hardly selfless and completely narcissistic.

[Bob Kelso]

That movie is one giant, fallacious, stereotypical Christian joke and not a particularly funny one either. The fact that you found it "very moving" says a lot about you.

Did you see it?

No, and I don't intend to. I did, however, read several reviews (yes, some were by Christians) including this one;

Philosophy Professor's Short Review

and if that's not good enough for you then here is a turn by turn breakdown of counter-apologetic arguments. A 21 point, 12000 word paper no less from the same professor.

Eat your heart out Rev.

[Faith No More]

I find it interesting how atheists are quick to judge the Bible but few have read it objectively from cover to cover. Christian movies the same. If you really don't want to believe something, Jesus appearing before you may not convince you.

And I find it interesting how Christians vehemently try to avoid actually learning what the atheist argument is, and instead choose to attack and revel in the strawmen put forth by their deluded brothers-in-Christ.

To each his own.