The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave

[Revelation777]

The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave

Mmm… A'm I supposed to accept the testimony of people just because they are in the bible? How can I know they ain't lying? Don't have anything more solid? Is all you're evidence testimonial? Am I supposed to accept a testimony of people who lived 2 thousand years ago that I presume had 2 thousand years prejudices? (like racial, and sexual discrimination and believe that the earth was flat for example)How did they knew that it was a work from God and not the Devil? Does Judeo-Christian miracles have a specific attribute that separate them from other religious miracles? Why is the bible only written by it's saints if there are other witnesses, don't those witness have the right to put their names and words in the bible? Wouldn't that give the bible more credit? How can I know that those people witnessed a real miracle and not a well elaborated scheme by the disciples of Christ? How can I trust the eye vision of those witness? Do they have perfect eyesight? Does anyone interrogate the man to see if it was really Jesus and not a man that looked like him? Why none followed him after witnessing a dead person live again? How can I know that after that Jesus went to heaven? Did they saw it fly to heaven or floating?

Revelation777 are you gonna ignore my reply like you did last time?

Please note I don't try to ignore anyone's reply. It takes me over an hour every time I log on to this forum to go through everything. I admit that I can't prove with sight and touch that God exists, it is by faith. I can only share how my life was impacted. But you can say I am lying or whatever else. I am telling you He is real and the Bible is Truth.

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We are in a season of Grace and Faith. God first sent prophets, then His Son, now His church. Soon He returns. Time is short, please repent.

What makes you think that anyone should take this idiotic bullshit seriously? We shouldn't.

Sir, please reconsider.

[Minimalist]

most of the prophesies are yet to come

Isn't that convenient. Your capacity for self-delusion is definitely "xtian."

[The Valkyrie]

THere's nothing to reconsider.

Many of us are former theists. Been there, done that, (literally) bought the t-shirt, but managed to avoid the cool-aid.

The risk of offending the Abrahamic deity is on par with offending Odin, Osiris, Zeus or Quetzacoatl.

I'm not going to start believing in a god just in case it may be real - not only is that dishonest but if the deity is all-knowing, as it's depicted, then it would see through the ruse anyway.

Also, if I started believing in one god just in case, I'd have to believe and worship them all, just in case. And I really don't have the time for that.

Better to live a life of honesty and personal integrity.

Also, if the Abrahamic god is truly real, there's no way I could justifiably worship that monster.

[Godlesspanther]

Sir, please reconsider.

Reconsider? That's it? You make an utterly absurd claim, behave as though everyone has some kind of obligation to believe it, and offer absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I reject your absurd claim, if for no other reason, because it is just too fucking stupid to be believable. And I get, "reconsider."

I don't believe that you really want anyone to join your cult. If you did, you would at least try not to make it so obvious that you are full of shit and not to be believed.

[DeistPaladin]

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

I'm pointing out the stark contrast between the world of the Bible and the world we live in.

Read the Babble and you read about a world drenched in the supernatural. The god of the Babble is not a subtle character in the least. In the Old Testament, he routinely interacted with the other characters, even speaking face-to-face with Moses and giving a public speech to Judea. In the New Testament, you have not just Jesus but also people of faith able to heal and cast out demons, angels breaking people out of prison and booming voices from the sky.

Put down the Babble and look around. It's a natural universe, devoid of supernatural upheaval, governed by predictable laws and best understood by science and reason. The Christian god has retreated to become a subtle observer in events, barely able to muster the power to occasionally appear on a slice of toast. Christians who believe this god intervenes in human affairs can only point to natural occurrences like hurricanes or earthquakes, where divine intervention becomes indistinguishable from unfortunate turns of well-understood forces of nature.

The contrast between the dreamscape world of your scripture and the way the universe actually operates in reality becomes especially palpable when the apologists step forward to offer their best evidence for their beliefs. William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Habermas, et al, have no storehouse of holy relics like the magic handkerchiefs of Paul (see the Book of Acts of the Apostles 19:11-12). They can perform no miracles of healing as repeatable demonstrations performed under medical peer review (see Mark 16:17-18). There are no angels that can be summoned to strike dead the world's tyrants (Acts 12:23), nor can your god make a speech to the public (Judges 1:1-3) or shout from the sky (Matt 3:17).

They can offer no evidence of any kind even though the Bible depicts a realm in which this kind of evidence should be expected.

Instead, the apologists are limited to the arguments that should be expected in a natural universe. They bring to the table abstract philosophy, mental constructs and verbal slight-of-hand. Entire textbooks on logical fallacies could be penned using their arguments as examples but letting that go, one can't help but notice that when the reverberations of the noise they make fade away, there is not one shred of evidence, a single repeatable demonstration or the aid of any supernatural agent to lend credence to their fanciful claims. The only magic I ever see is the razzle-dazzle of the apologist showman.

It's a natural world we live in, my friend, and if there is some sort of god out there, It clearly has no interest in being worshiped by the microscopic beings on a pale blue dot that only came into existence in the relatively recent history of the universe.

[Revelation777]

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

I'm pointing out the stark contrast between the world of the Bible and the world we live in.

Read the Babble and you read about a world drenched in the supernatural. The god of the Babble is not a subtle character in the least. In the Old Testament, he routinely interacted with the other characters, even speaking face-to-face with Moses and giving a public speech to Judea. In the New Testament, you have not just Jesus but also people of faith able to heal and cast out demons, angels breaking people out of prison and booming voices from the sky.

Put down the Babble and look around. It's a natural universe, devoid of supernatural upheaval, governed by predictable laws and best understood by science and reason. The Christian god has retreated to become a subtle observer in events, barely able to muster the power to occasionally appear on a slice of toast. Christians who believe this god intervenes in human affairs can only point to natural occurrences like hurricanes or earthquakes, where divine intervention becomes indistinguishable from unfortunate turns of well-understood forces of nature.

The contrast between the dreamscape world of your scripture and the way the universe actually operates in reality becomes especially palpable when the apologists step forward to offer their best evidence for their beliefs. William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, Habermas, et al, have no storehouse of holy relics like the magic handkerchiefs of Paul (see the Book of Acts of the Apostles 19:11-12). They can perform no miracles of healing as repeatable demonstrations performed under medical peer review (see Mark 16:17-18). There are no angels that can be summoned to strike dead the world's tyrants (Acts 12:23), nor can your god make a speech to the public (Judges 1:1-3) or shout from the sky (Matt 3:17).

They can offer no evidence of any kind even though the Bible depicts a realm in which this kind of evidence should be expected.

Instead, the apologists are limited to the arguments that should be expected in a natural universe. They bring to the table abstract philosophy, mental constructs and verbal slight-of-hand. Entire textbooks on logical fallacies could be penned using their arguments as examples but letting that go, one can't help but notice that when the reverberations of the noise they make fade away, there is not one shred of evidence, a single repeatable demonstration or the aid of any supernatural agent to lend credence to their fanciful claims. The only magic I ever see is the razzle-dazzle of the apologist showman.

It's a natural world we live in, my friend, and if there is some sort of god out there, It clearly has no interest in being worshiped by the microscopic beings on a pale blue dot that only came into existence in the relatively recent history of the universe.

Dear Sir,
It is true that the Scripture is filled with the supernatural. Well, we have a supernatural God. He has a timeline and He is following it to the "T". He is active, He sent His prophets, then His Son, and now we are in a time of faith. He even told the Jews that they look for a sign but all He would give them is the sign of Jonah. And He delivered, He rose again. He is given mankind this season to turn to Him. And just like in the days of Noah, when the period of grace is up, you will see the supernatural. The endtimes are at hand, the prophesies are being fulfilled in our day. Israel, just like the Bible predicted has be re-est in 1948. We are heading towards a one world, one monitary system, just like the Bible predicted. The man of sin is about to come on the scene. This world will be entering in a time of trial like it has never seen before. That is why I am sounding the alarm, time is running out.

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That's a good question Stimbo. One person claimed to believe but I think he was mocking me.

April fool posts are an old tradition here. Wasn't personal.

I'm an apostate - I doubt very seriously anyone could convince me to go back.

oh i pray you do

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Once you know scientifically what DNA is there is no way your brain can swallow stories of virgin births. Once you know scientifically what rigor mortis is, there is no way you can swallow dead human flesh magically reconstituting itself.

Considering the scientific ignorance of the time it was written, one can only conclude that the bible is a book of myth reflecting the desires and fantasies of those who wrote it and wanted it to be true.

But it was never true, just like the Egyptians falsely for 3,000 years depicted their magical god/s and superstitions.

But God said what is impossible for man is possible with God. He has the power to raise us from the dead.

[Esquilax]

Seriously, Rev, how can you possibly not be getting what we're telling you?

[DeistPaladin]

Well, we have a supernatural God.

Where?

we are in a time of faith.

What do you base that assertion on, that this was Jesus' plan all along?

There is no mention in the Bible that all the miracles will go away and Jesus will play peak-a-boo with us. I ask because you are spuriously dismissing the inconsistency of a bombastic showman god who dazzled the crowds with his overt displays of supernatural power only to hide in the shadows now that the technology exists to both record and communicate such events all over the world.

It would be as if a mainstream religion insisted that Star Wars was a documentary and that The Force was a real power in the universe, that at one time Jedi could move objects with their minds and dominate the weak willed. "Where are these Jedi now," the skeptic might ask, noting that the modern priests of the Force had no such powers. It's all tricks and nonsense.

Back to the claims of the Bible, the miracles certainly didn't stop when Jesus flew up into Heaven on the day of his resurrection (Luke 24). Or was that eight days later (John 20)? Or was it 40 days later (Acts 1:3)? Well, regardless of what timeline we choose to follow, the miracles still continued after Jesus departed according to Acts. They only stopped once science lifted the curtain of superstition and ignorance, forcing your god away from the present and into either the distant past or some nebulous future time. Speaking of which...

The endtimes are at hand

So Christians have said for 2000 years since Jesus established the tradition.

Jesus promised that the endtimes would be within the lifetimes of some who heard him speak (Mark 13:30). Paul believed that he would be among those in the rapture (see 1Thes 4:17 and note the "WE"). Revelation ended with the promise "surely I come quickly" (Rev 22:20).

2,000 years later, we're still waiting.

Israel, just like the Bible predicted has be re-est in 1948.

The god of Israel promised that the seed of David would rule forever, not to disappear and be reformed in 1948 by Christian interests in America seeking to fulfill their own prophecies. That's probably how Christianity formed in the first place, by the way. Some Jews were chaffing under Roman rule wondering what the hell happened to that promise Yahweh gave to king David. A few decided their promised kingdom was in a higher place and the rest is history.

We are heading towards a one world, one monitary system, just like the Bible predicted.

I wish that were true. If the human race and our civilization is going to survive we're going to have to come together. Don't hold your breath waiting for it.

[Minimalist]

Maybe you're waiting, D-P.

I think its a pile of shit!

[DeistPaladin]

Maybe you're waiting, D-P.

I think you know me better.