WLC free will and omniscience

[Rampant.A.I.]

It is just a phrase we use when something is beyond logic.

You mean beyond you.

[Ryantology]

You guys are unreal.
Foreknowledge does not mean planned interference.
You are insinuating that you are victims, some kind of chess figure on the board.
Baloney.

An objective consideration of the Christian worldview confirms that, according to it, we are at least one and probably both of these things. Your god is neglectful and vindictive, a being who has literally no needs and yet does nothing for free.

[fr0d0]

Two things: free will and free agency

You have no free will. You are a machine that acts as it has to act. This isn't anything to do with religion.

You are a free agent to act as your will dictates.

Of course an omniscient being knows what choices you made. That doesn't affect your choices.

You can't not do X from Gods POV, but you don't know Gods POV, so your choice isn't affected by it.

[tor]

Two things: free will and free agency

You have no free will. You are a machine that acts as it has to act. This isn't anything to do with religion.

You are a free agent to act as your will dictates.

Of course an omniscient being knows what choices you made. That doesn't affect your choices.

You can't not do X from Gods POV, but you don't know Gods POV, so your choice isn't affected by it.

But the fact that I can't not do X means I'm not free.

[archangle]

Rant, rant, rant, ... religion sucks .... rant, jump, rant some more, ... I hate religions and all its people. Ok now I am done with that, let me settle down think about it.

The only flaw is the understanding of how god "lives" or does things.
If you know where every atom is right now you have a good chance of knowing where they will be in 5 minutes from now. But how far can you go? Based on what we do know about quantum mechanics? the further we go into the future the more uncertain we become. So if the wave equations for electrons are ok the probability of knowing decreases.

I don't believe in a breaded guy in the sky, but if he created the universe with "free will" then he may have used probability to do it. In effect, he made a random number generator. He may know all the outcomes. But the machine can pick one. To a limited degree.

I just think religion got god traits wrong. Until we can prove there is "nothing" then that's the best stance we can legitimately have

[Tonus]

So he is saying that if god knows what my choices are gonna be I am still free cause I can do otherwise. And how am I going to do that?

This omniscience thing is pretty straight forward. If god knows I will do X I can't not do X. I see no flaw in the argument.

When it comes to Yahweh, nothing is straightforward. Throw in omniscience and free will and the possible explanations are seemingly endless.

[MindForgedManacle]

Two things: free will and free agency

You have no free will. You are a machine that acts as it has to act. This isn't anything to do with religion.

You are a free agent to act as your will dictates.

Of course an omniscient being knows what choices you made. That doesn't affect your choices.

You can't not do X from Gods POV, but you don't know Gods POV, so your choice isn't affected by it.

You do realize that make you a compatibilist, right? It's fine by me, as I lean toward compatibilism myself. The problem is holding to that position creates more critical problems in your worldview. After all, under compatibilist free will, God could have determined a universe with no evil, and still preserve that compatibilist free will.

[FreeTony]

Poor God. Having omniscience would make life extremely dull.

It also means that all the fixes he had to make to the world in the bible he knew he'd have to make before he designed the universe.

Maybe he designed it so badly to give him something to do in the future.

[tor]

Poor God. Having omniscience would make life extremely dull.

Not really. It can be fun watching those poor people struggle when you know the outcome beforehand.

[fr0d0]

Two things: free will and free agency

You have no free will. You are a machine that acts as it has to act. This isn't anything to do with religion.

You are a free agent to act as your will dictates.

Of course an omniscient being knows what choices you made. That doesn't affect your choices.

You can't not do X from Gods POV, but you don't know Gods POV, so your choice isn't affected by it.

But the fact that I can't not do X means I'm not free.

Not free from Gods POV. Why are you not free from your POV? You're conflating two different perspectives making your summary fallacious.

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Two things: free will and free agency

You have no free will. You are a machine that acts as it has to act. This isn't anything to do with religion.

You are a free agent to act as your will dictates.

Of course an omniscient being knows what choices you made. That doesn't affect your choices.

You can't not do X from Gods POV, but you don't know Gods POV, so your choice isn't affected by it.

You do realize that make you a compatibilist, right? It's fine by me, as I lean toward compatibilism myself. The problem is holding to that position creates more critical problems in your worldview. After all, under compatibilist free will, God could have determined a universe with no evil, and still preserve that compatibilist free will.

The future isn't determined, it's just known if any being has the ability to traverse time, or be omnipresent, as God does. God can still mould events to produce results. In this case, our reality is as God wills it. I have no issue with the balance of good and evil. Life wouldn't be possible without it I think.