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Funny thing about theodicy
April 10, 2014 at 4:28 pm
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm by tor.)
The main solution to problem of evil among apologists is so called "morally sufficient reason" for allowing suffering to exist.
He is omnipotent he can prevent it any time he wants but he does not for "good reasons". But nobody knows what they are.
According to apologists it's up to the atheist to prove that god does not have morally sufficient reason for allowing suffering to exist.
However it's pretty funny if you apply this to human perspective.
Serial child torturer is in court and lawyer is saying that it's up to the persecutor to prove that torturer did not have morally sufficient reasons to torture children and if he can't do it torturer is innocent. I doubt that would work.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 10, 2014 at 4:42 pm
Any word that starts with "theo" is garranteed to mean "bullshit and nothing but bullshit".
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 10, 2014 at 7:36 pm
A lot of those apologetics assume that God does have limitations. Bonus points of the apologist still claims he doesn't have limitations. Common examples include:
- Free will - we need to be able to be free to sin because [reasons] and this is super important. Now, why an all powerful God couldn't make us have choice, but only good choices is beyond me.*
- You have to know dark to know light - God can't create beings that appreciate good without having suffered first.
- Best of all possible worlds - it implies a limitation by it's very premise. God is facing unstated limitations and he is doing the best he can. The world would literally be worse off if little children didn't die of Tay Sachs. Because [reasons], of course.
*This reminds me of a thread I want to start.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm
(April 10, 2014 at 7:36 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: [*]Free will - we need to be able to be free to sin because [reasons] and this is super important. Now, why an all powerful God couldn't make us have choice, but only good choices is beyond me.*
New research suggests that intelligence tries to maximize the diversity of future options. If God only allowed us to make "good choices" it would be an act of limiting our future options thereby making us less intelligent.
Better to be smart and capable of evil then dumb and only capable of good.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/ted-an-equatio...sner-gross
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 11, 2014 at 9:39 am
(April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: New research suggests that intelligence tries to maximize the diversity of future options. If God only allowed us to make "good choices" it would be an act of limiting our future options thereby making us less intelligent.
So this could be renamed the Problem of Intelligence?
(April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: Better to be smart and capable of evil then dumb and only capable of good. Is it? I suppose if we figure things like intelligence leading to good medical advancements, that's certainly nice, but if you're saying that not being smart would keep us from killing each other, I don't think you have such a clear-cut case.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 11, 2014 at 9:45 am
(April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: New research suggests that intelligence tries to maximize the diversity of future options. If God only allowed us to make "good choices" it would be an act of limiting our future options thereby making us less intelligent.
Better to be smart and capable of evil then dumb and only capable of good.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/ted-an-equatio...sner-gross
And your omnipotent god is limited by a false dichotomy like that? 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 11, 2014 at 9:58 am
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2014 at 9:59 am by tor.)
(April 10, 2014 at 7:36 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: A lot of those apologetics assume that God does have limitations. Bonus points of the apologist still claims he doesn't have limitations. Common examples include:
- Free will - we need to be able to be free to sin because [reasons] and this is super important. Now, why an all powerful God couldn't make us have choice, but only good choices is beyond me.*
- You have to know dark to know light - God can't create beings that appreciate good without having suffered first.
- Best of all possible worlds - it implies a limitation by it's very premise. God is facing unstated limitations and he is doing the best he can. The world would literally be worse off if little children didn't die of Tay Sachs. Because [reasons], of course.
*This reminds me of a thread I want to start.
Even if people did have desire to do evil they might not be given possibility to exercise it. I want to fly but I have no possibility. I want to be healthy without eating but that's not possible either.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 11, 2014 at 9:54 pm
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2014 at 9:57 pm by Heywood.)
(April 11, 2014 at 9:39 am)RobbyPants Wrote: (April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: New research suggests that intelligence tries to maximize the diversity of future options. If God only allowed us to make "good choices" it would be an act of limiting our future options thereby making us less intelligent.
So this could be renamed the Problem of Intelligence?
(April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: Better to be smart and capable of evil then dumb and only capable of good. Is it? I suppose if we figure things like intelligence leading to good medical advancements, that's certainly nice, but if you're saying that not being smart would keep us from killing each other, I don't think you have such a clear-cut case.
To be intelligence requires a reality to be intelligent about. An intelligent mind absent a reality is nonsensical(it irks me when theists describe God like this). If there is no reality what do you think about? To what do you apply your logic and reason? What problems can you solve or what things can you understand?
Intelligence cannot exist unless a robust reality exists. The more robust the reality, the more potential there is for intelligence.
Imagine a world in which only two things exist. A mind and good. In that world the mind can apply logic and reason to understand itself and good.
Now imagine a world in which only three things exist. A mind, good, and evil. In this world the mind can apply logic and reason to understand itself, good, and evil. Since the second world is a more robust reality the mind in the second world has the potential to be more intelligent then the mind in the first world.
Creating a world in which only good exists comes at cost of less intelligence for that world.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 11, 2014 at 9:59 pm
(April 11, 2014 at 9:54 pm)Heywood Wrote: (April 11, 2014 at 9:39 am)RobbyPants Wrote: So this could be renamed the Problem of Intelligence?
Is it? I suppose if we figure things like intelligence leading to good medical advancements, that's certainly nice, but if you're saying that not being smart would keep us from killing each other, I don't think you have such a clear-cut case.
To be intelligence requires a reality to be intelligent about. An intelligent mind absent a reality is nonsensical(it irks me when theists describe God like this). If there is no reality what do you think about? To what do you apply your logic and reason? What problems can you solve or what things can you understand?
Intelligence cannot exist unless a robust reality exists. The more robust the reality, the more potential there is for intelligence.
Imagine a world in which only two things exist. A mind and good. In that world the mind can apply logic and reason to understand itself and good.
Now imagine a world in which only three things exist. A mind, good, and evil. In this world the mind can apply logic and reason to understand itself, good, and evil. Since the second world is a more robust reality the mind in the second world has the potential to be more intelligent then the mind in the first world.
Creating a world in which only good exists comes at cost of less intelligence for that world.
Godlike fail.
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RE: Funny thing about theodicy
April 12, 2014 at 2:49 am
(April 11, 2014 at 9:45 am)Esquilax Wrote: (April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm)Heywood Wrote: New research suggests that intelligence tries to maximize the diversity of future options. If God only allowed us to make "good choices" it would be an act of limiting our future options thereby making us less intelligent.
Better to be smart and capable of evil then dumb and only capable of good.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/ted-an-equatio...sner-gross
And your omnipotent god is limited by a false dichotomy like that?
My omnipotent God is limited by halting problems.
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