Christian "purpose" and "meaning" in life.

[Hoopington]

Godschild, you've made an interesting point about getting into Heaven, you said that getting their isn't a risk, or a test, but it is "chosen."

What of those poor people who have never heard of the Christian God? Hypothetically speaking, what if, out of blind ignorance, an entire group of people were committing adultery. This hypothetical people like a bit of "free-love," so adultery is a daily occurrence.

Have they "chosen" hell?

[Brakeman]

Godschild, you've made an interesting point about getting into Heaven, you said that getting their isn't a risk, or a test, but it is "chosen."

What of those poor people who have never heard of the Christian God? Hypothetically speaking, what if, out of blind ignorance, an entire group of people were committing adultery. This hypothetical people like a bit of "free-love," so adultery is a daily occurrence.

Have they "chosen" hell?

You have forgotten about the doctrine of "original sin." You were born choosing hell, according to christians.

[Hoopington]

Godschild, you've made an interesting point about getting into Heaven, you said that getting their isn't a risk, or a test, but it is "chosen."

What of those poor people who have never heard of the Christian God? Hypothetically speaking, what if, out of blind ignorance, an entire group of people were committing adultery. This hypothetical people like a bit of "free-love," so adultery is a daily occurrence.

Have they "chosen" hell?

You have forgotten about the doctrine of "original sin." You were born choosing hell, according to christians.

So, you don't choose at all??

This is all very confusing.

[Esquilax]

You have forgotten about the doctrine of "original sin." You were born choosing hell, according to christians.

So, you don't choose at all??

This is all very confusing.

*Sigh*

You were born choosing hell because of original sin and so you need saving by choosing Jesus Christ but you have to do that by faith because if he actually revealed himself there would be no free will, and likewise if you just killed babies to assure they got into heaven would rob future generations of their free will to choose, which being born choosing hell does not do because we're all sinful creatures who choose hell even when we don't choose anything.

Nothing hard to follow about that.

[Neo-Scholastic]

It's possible to make anything seem confusing if you try hard enough. You seem to be good at that, Esq. Or you just try hard.

[Esquilax]

It's possible to make anything seem confusing if you try hard enough. You seem to be good at that, Esq. Or you just try hard.

It's only as easy as the circuitous and labyrinthine nature of the source material, Chad.

[Godscreated]

This life is not a test to get into heaven and there is no risk of hell, it's chosen just like heaven is.

Are you saying that once you choose heaven, you are guaranteed to go there? Or is there an ongoing effort involved?

I'm saying once you choose Christ, heaven is a gift of this choice, you are guaranteed the gift unless you choose to leave Christ and the commitment you made to Him. You seem to be stuck on working for and to maintain salvation, you can do nothing to gain salvation other than accept the gift, if you really accepted that gift work comes as a natural process.

I see that your thinking would end the human population in one generation, denying future people their choice for heaven or hell.

I am pointing out that in the scenario you described, it's the best option for each individual. It guarantees heaven without risk of hell, and the only price to pay is a short and imperfect life on Earth.

What I'm trying to say is there doesn't have to be a risk of hell, salvation is offered to all, it's a matter of accepting the gift. Of coarse dying as a child takes out the risk, but I personally would rather live my life and why because I know what living life is. Again the short life can't be possible without others living longer lives, so reality dictates longer life.

Jesus did not say the path to heaven was long, and He did not say it was hard to find. Christians who say other Christians may not be saved comes from what we know scripture says about how Christians can be identified, that certain actions come from an unchanged heart. You can't do anything to gain salvation other than to accept the offered gift of grace from God.

Yes, you are correct about what Jesus said. The path is narrow and difficult and few will find it. The point being that Jesus acknowledges that few will be saved. In another verse he also says that not everyone who claims to have served him will achieve salvation. Which means that gaining salvation is not easy and few will do so, including many who believed that they were following Christ.

Few find salvation because they reject it, why, mostly out of self interest instead of self sacrifice, self sacrifice is that narrow gate. Those who claim to serve Him and not have salvation are doing the serving for their self interest, not sacrificing for the Kingdom of God. In the end I have my doubts that many of those who claim salvation, yet do not have it, will actually be surprised. So in the end salvation is no hard to find, it's actually offered and one can only loose salvation by walking away from it, those who really have accepted Christ have no problem working for Him.

If that is the case and few people will ever be saved, then those who get to skip the process are lucky, it seems to me. Compared to an eternity, this life is so brief that it will seem like the blink of an eye. Skipping it really does seem like the best option to me.

I do not see it as being lucky, like I said before I'm glad to be able to live life because I've lived it, living life with Christ is even better, actually I wouldn't want it any other way after experiencing life with Him. Would you have rather died as a child or live life, if you choose life then why would you reject salvation through Christ?

GC

---

Godschild, you've made an interesting point about getting into Heaven, you said that getting their isn't a risk, or a test, but it is "chosen."

What of those poor people who have never heard of the Christian God? Hypothetically speaking, what if, out of blind ignorance, an entire group of people were committing adultery. This hypothetical people like a bit of "free-love," so adultery is a daily occurrence.

Have they "chosen" hell?

As a person who can not possibly know how God will judge people who have not heard of Christ I would say that those you're saying commit adultery will not be in heaven, but then that's me not God. I say that from what little I can understand about what scripture says about those who have never heard of Christ.

GC

[Godlesspanther]

As a person who can not possibly know how God will judge people who have not heard of Christ I would say that those you're saying commit adultery will not be in heaven, but then that's me not God. I say that from what little I can understand about what scripture says about those who have never heard of Christ.

GC

There are Calvinist determinists who take it to the extreme that those who are destined for heaven are pre-determined and everyone else goes to hell. The late Fred Phelps was one who believed that everyone except his little band of followers go to hell. That includes children -- according to this doctrine the age of accountability is irrelevant -- all babies, fetuses, embryos, children, and teenagers who were not destined to heaven to begin with go to hell. That includes those who have never been presented with the option of accepting the right kind of Jesus -- hell, and that just TFB for them.

Isn't it an amazing coincidence that the grand-cosmic-cupcake just happens to agree with the believer about absolutely everything?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

As a person who can not possibly know how God will judge people who have not heard of Christ I would say that those you're saying commit adultery will not be in heaven, but then that's me not God. I say that from what little I can understand about what scripture says about those who have never heard of Christ.

GC

There are Calvinist determinists who take it to the extreme that those who are destined for heaven are pre-determined and everyone else goes to hell. The late Fred Phelps was one who believed that everyone except his little band of followers go to hell. That includes children -- according to this doctrine the age of accountability is irrelevant -- all babies, fetuses, embryos, children, and teenagers who were not destined to heaven to begin with go to hell. That includes those who have never been presented with the option of accepting the right kind of Jesus -- hell, and that just TFB for them.

Isn't it an amazing coincidence that the grand-cosmic-cupcake just happens to agree with the believer about absolutely everything?

One would almost think they're making it up.

[Tonus]

Few find salvation because they reject it, why, mostly out of self interest instead of self sacrifice, self sacrifice is that narrow gate.

That doesn't make sense. Why would someone reject salvation out of self-interest? It seems to me that the obvious choice for those who put their own interest first would be salvation. Choosing that gate doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice, since it leads to eternal life in heaven.

Would you have rather died as a child or live life, if you choose life then why would you reject salvation through Christ?

I prefer to live this life because there is no salvation through Christ. If there was, then it would be an easy decision to seek salvation. As it is, the easy decision is to not chase after rewards that do not exist, and so I live and enjoy the life I have.