Christian "purpose" and "meaning" in life.

[Godscreated]

Apparently more than you do.

GC

Ignorant, childish answer from an ignorant, childish man. So sad.

You're full of crap even more than a dirty toilet, you never have anything constructive to say, how is it you mange to get through life, by your regrets post you seem to not be managing well.

GC

[Rampant.A.I.]

Ignorant, childish answer from an ignorant, childish man. So sad.

You're full of crap even more than a dirty toilet, you never have anything constructive to say, how is it you mange to get through life, by your regrets post you seem to not be managing well.

GC

Oh. So GC is out of steam, then.

[Foxaèr]

by your regrets post you seem to not be managing well.

GC

I would state he is managing life better than you, because he has not deluded himself into religious faith.

[The Valkyrie]

You're full of crap even more than a dirty toilet, you never have anything constructive to say, how is it you mange to get through life, by your regrets post you seem to not be managing well.

GC

Oh. So GC is out of steam, then.

The little engine that couldn't.

[Esquilax]

Why are you seemingly incapable of absorbing the fact that many people here left religion because repentance didn't make things better?

The fact that you are an atheist means that you didn't truly repent. Sorry.

Great, so now you've got beliefs that have no failure state, are unfalsifiable, and are hence irrational. You've just locked your own beliefs out of rationality forever.

This is such a profoundly dishonest sentiment from you, Chad, this bullshit idea that if you ever perceive that repentance doesn't work sufficiently to give up on it, it means you're doing it wrong. So, what, the only way to do it right is to just continue to believe in it forever and never ever consider that it might fail?

You are such a fucking amateur at this.

[Tonus]

First of all, I told you he does communicate with me. Why do you say it's the most useless form of communication ever devised? He managed to communicate it to approximately 1/3 of the world's population today. You can't hear him if you keep your brain closed though.

If the best that god can do is a 33% success rate, then he's doing it wrong.

Second, I would venture that it's much, much lower than that, seeing as how so many Christian denominations exist specifically because they differ on how to interpret god's message. And many of them are quick to point out that most "self-professed" Christians are no such thing. If you are going to point to the large number of Christians and any sort of support for a point you are making, I hope you aren't going to play the "No True Christian" card any other time, as that would be quite hypocritical.

---

No it doesn't, not believing is rejecting period and that rejection comes through self interest, self interest is the first sin committed. Disobeying God whether you recognize Him or not is sin through self interest. To obey is to sacrifice what one desires for doing God's will. It's God's desire that everyone be saved and those who are not save is because they make a decision that they desire, that desire is out side God's desire.

But we can see desires as being on different levels. Immediate and temporary (a bowl of ice cream) and long term (building a retirement nest egg). To decide not to serve god if you know he exists is to reject the immediate desires that god condemns (which have a potential for a bit of enjoyment at the cost of other problems later) in favor of the long term goal of salvation (which has as its prize the greatest reward possible). In that sense, I can also admit that this would count as a sacrifice.

When I believed in god I walked the straight and narrow with very little effort because the idea of seeing the world returned to the glory that god had intended was so much better than seeing the current world continue that it wasn't a difficult choice. But it was definitely driven by self-interest. Having come to the conclusion that god wasn't there and this world was all I would have, self-interest dictated that it was not worth the time and effort to chase after something that was not there.

Salvation is a sacrifice, as Paul said, one must die to self and receive Christ as the Lord of their life, one switches Lords, from self to Christ. Could it be those who walked away from Christianity were not interested in a new Lord but keep the old one.

I accept your point about salvation requiring sacrifice (see above). I think it's a very small price to pay for what is offered, but I think it's fair to call it a sacrifice.

Logic what does logical proof have to do with the spiritual, the spiritual abounds in logic just not the logical proof you demand, and I find it very illogical to demand proof from God.

The Bible makes it pretty clear that god was never shy about interacting with people and proving himself through clear and unambiguous action. Sometimes it was by talking directly to people, or sending a heavenly messenger. Sometimes it was something as spectacular as parting the waters of a sea. Other times it was more sublime yet still impressive, such as walking on the surface of the sea. The Bible tells us that god acted in ways that people could easily witness and confirm with one another. It also tells us that in a future time he will do it again, and there will be no doubt that it's him.

But in the meantime he will disappear and make no impression at all, except on an individual level and in ways that can only be interpreted by the individual in question. He is so subtle in this that many people apparently miss the clues entirely, and those that do might misinterpret them. And that's not counting demons appearing as 'angels of light' to mislead people. To me it lacks consistency, and the decades I spent as a believer do nothing to change that. That I was as sincere as I was for as long as I was and literally saw nothing of god makes a very deep impression on me as a thinking person.

[Rampant.A.I.]

The fact that you are an atheist means that you didn't truly repent. Sorry.

Great, so now you've got beliefs that have no failure state, are unfalsifiable, and are hence irrational. You've just locked your own beliefs out of rationality forever.

This is such a profoundly dishonest sentiment from you, Chad, this bullshit idea that if you ever perceive that repentance doesn't work sufficiently to give up on it, it means you're doing it wrong. So, what, the only way to do it right is to just continue to believe in it forever and never ever consider that it might fail?

You are such a fucking amateur at this.

And if my prior reply gets skipped over, let's explore this. Going back to when I lay dying, airway doubled in half, before being airlifted from the crash site, why didn't your God choose to reveal himself to me?

I know he works in mysterious ways, I get that. However, in your specific brand of belief; what would be the eventual purpose of more or less giving me "dating advice" by introducing a hyper-realistic vision of the woman I was casually dating at the time dying in an agonizing way, literally bleeding out before my eyes; in such a way that several months after the accident and sedatives, I would still chastise her for "not actually being here" and "being dead" shortly after waking up?

If you say "It was a spiritual vision of God's plan!", I'll accept that.

But why involve the closeted homosexual Fireman on his way to visit his boyfriend at the marine base where God caused the car accident? What would be the point of that? God timed events so perfectly that not only was I brake-checked off the road by one of His Good Christian Soldiers, in time to have my Spiritual Vision, but God sent a Homosexual Angel to untwist my airway, who was coincidentally on his way to visit his boyfriend at the marine base for an extramarital affair, to pass on the above-mentioned dating advice?

I didn't need to have a dozen percutaneous pins rammed through my distal and radial ulnar joints to think "Hey, this girl who hits every one of my ideals for physical and mental attraction might be worth spending more time with." I already knew that. I didn't need a year of physical therapy to get back basic articulated functions underscore it for me.

Moreover, if God knew, being omniscient, that post-accident, the lifelong deist-leaning agnostic would start to search out atheist podcasts for daily listening, atheist forums to read, and anti-religious propaganda for me to repost online, why push me over the edge? Why push someone analytical enough to watch their own arm be flayed open for proper placement of stitches and pins to analyze such experiences, knowing I would interpret my Spiritual Vision from a wholly psychological viewpoint, without the necessary involvement of any deity?

Why not show up for .03 seconds of human time, and say "hey, Dude: You're fucking up. I'm sending you back down for a second chance, OK?"

Because, as of now, I am more convinced than ever that every religion is simply experiencing a part of the human mind they applies wishful thinking, and assigns a whole set of natural experiences to a God that doesn't exist outside our sculls.

And that there's nothing I experienced that makes me want ascribe my experiences to anything more than a need to converting my freckled, big-boob redhead to secular humanism, so she can enjoy the rest of her life with me without guilt and the threat of eternal torture in hell for enjoying what he have in the here-and-now.



"Thanks Jesus, would have missed this one if you hadn't prompted the car wreck!"

[Brakeman]

kidding aside, The prophets and the bible authors could not have had the same method of communication as you, through scripture only, so where does the bible explain that your prayers will be different and that god won't talk to you as he did in all the other examples?

He can communicate with me any way he wants. I believe he's communicated with me through situations or signs. He might talk to me in words some day. I don't know. I don't particularly need him to do so. What are you getting at?

So god hasn't spoken to you directly yet??
Do you think that perhaps you had a faulty baptism? In the new testament some believers accepted Christ per John's teaching (John 3:16) but had a faulty baptism and because of that the Holy Ghost hadn't come to them yet.
Just like you, they weren't getting any direct communication from god via the holy spook despite their very sincere prayers. Paul saw their problem and fixed that.
It seems that Paul had to re-baptize them to get it right so that they could receive the holy spirit that they had been missing. Do you think this could be your problem? To reference this, it is found in Acts 19.

Just think, one little screw up at the baptism, and you've been going for years in a pool of self delusion thinking god just doesn't have anything to say to you, but in your reality, you just have a messed up phone line to god and you didn't know it... I think you should get re-baptized right away, your ghost line answering service must be full of important messages from god himself... Maybe he wants you to build another boat?

[Godscreated]

The Bible makes it pretty clear that god was never shy about interacting with people and proving himself through clear and unambiguous action. Sometimes it was by talking directly to people, or sending a heavenly messenger. Sometimes it was something as spectacular as parting the waters of a sea. Other times it was more sublime yet still impressive, such as walking on the surface of the sea. The Bible tells us that god acted in ways that people could easily witness and confirm with one another. It also tells us that in a future time he will do it again, and there will be no doubt that it's him.

You are right about God making himself known in different physical ways, He was showing certain people who He was and laying out His plan of salvation for all mankind through His special people (Israel).
There's one problem that you and most people here make about God making himself known, let's take a look at them. People said that God talked to them in the past, yes it's even recorded in scripture and people today ask why doesn't He do that today. Would you believe someone if they reported that God spoke to them, you haven't as yet and neither do most here. This is an excuse to not believe in God, denying what someone else has experienced. Do I believe it when people say they have heard from God, no, not all, if what they say doesn't line up with scripture I have serious to complete doubt.
Would you believe someone if they reported an angel (messenger) was sent to them By God. If you wouldn't believe God spoke to someone I doubt it and neither would many here. Would I, it depends on what the message was, if it wasn't scriptural I would have my doubts. That's why I do not watch the TV preachers, not that all of them are trying to fool people some are genuine.
Would you believe a group of men telling you they saw Jesus walking on Lake Erie, no and neither would most here, including me. Why wouldn't I because of one thing Christ said, "It is finished." After His resurrection the days of those physical miracles were completed. The Holy Spirit is now the witness and the way God generally connects with people. The plan with all it's physical miracles was fulfilled at the resurrection. Now how many people in the past do you think believed the Red Sea was parted or any miracle of their time happened. Few if any, it takes the entire story of the plan to bring it to reality, random acts would have lead to nothing.

But in the meantime he will disappear and make no impression at all, except on an individual level and in ways that can only be interpreted by the individual in question. He is so subtle in this that many people apparently miss the clues entirely, and those that do might misinterpret them. And that's not counting demons appearing as 'angels of light' to mislead people. To me it lacks consistency, and the decades I spent as a believer do nothing to change that. That I was as sincere as I was for as long as I was and literally saw nothing of god makes a very deep impression on me as a thinking person.

Only on fallen angel will have that power and it will only happen because God will allow it. Maybe you need to go back and seriously examine your life in the church to see what happened that you could not see God, I know that if I had not seen God I would not have been with the church every long, to many promises in scripture for those who have really found Christ and accepted Him into their lives.

GC

[Lek]

He can communicate with me any way he wants. I believe he's communicated with me through situations or signs. He might talk to me in words some day. I don't know. I don't particularly need him to do so. What are you getting at?

So god hasn't spoken to you directly yet??
Do you think that perhaps you had a faulty baptism? In the new testament some believers accepted Christ per John's teaching (John 3:16) but had a faulty baptism and because of that the Holy Ghost hadn't come to them yet.
Just like you, they weren't getting any direct communication from god via the holy spook despite their very sincere prayers. Paul saw their problem and fixed that.
It seems that Paul had to re-baptize them to get it right so that they could receive the holy spirit that they had been missing. Do you think this could be your problem? To reference this, it is found in Acts 19.

Just think, one little screw up at the baptism, and you've been going for years in a pool of self delusion thinking god just doesn't have anything to say to you, but in your reality, you just have a messed up phone line to god and you didn't know it... I think you should get re-baptized right away, your ghost line answering service must be full of important messages from god himself... Maybe he wants you to build another boat?

You've got a real problem with biblical interpretation. I'll just stick with the baptism I had, but thanks anyway for the advice.