Why can't we accept it?

[Foxaèr]

Yes but not every person who believes in God is harmful so they don't need to be an Atheist thats what I've been trying to say.

The point in this instance, then, should not be reliant upon the concept of harm. Rather, it should be based on the reasonable understanding of valuing the harsh truth over the comfortable lie.

There is no valid, logical reason to believe in that which there is no evidence to support its existence. Making the claim that religious belief makes theists feel good is begging the question.

[Raeven]

AAP, you don't understand how insidious religious creep has become in this country, the USA.

I remember a time when things were more like they are in the UK. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, and you keep yours in church, and I'll keep mine to myself. But that's no longer the case.

A big part of the growing fundamentalist Xtian movement in the USA is not only to proselytize, but to impose those beliefs directly into the government that governs us all. For a long time, atheists took the laissez faire approach you advocate. What we have gotten for our live-and-let-live approach is the Ten Commandments shoved in our faces at courthouses throughout the country; a fully false but now quite persistent meme that our nation was founded as a Xtian nation (exactly the opposite is in fact true); public meetings now opened with prayer. Atheists here have begun to realize that if they don't fight back, we will lose our rights to ignore what Xtians believe. The militancy of certain religious groups here is hard to grasp unless you have lived it. Shunning is a big tool in their toolbox.

I have a wonderful community of non-believer friends. It's not hard to form a community without religion if you choose to do that.

I'm all for letting people believe what they want and always have been. But I am no longer indifferent to the harm I suffer from the spread of religious practices within my government. I speak out much more often now, and I'll continue to do so.

I am also incapable of putting even a tacit imprimatur on the validity of notions that don't withstand even the most basic scrutiny with a critical eye. To put the creation story up as an equally valid alternative to, say, the fossil record, is, in my opinion, an insult to the nobility of science and its reliability as a method. One is a pretty story so people don't have to think about things too much; the other is the truth. When someone tells me they don't "believe" in evolution, they may as well say they don't "believe" in the food they're eating as we enjoy our lunch.

If you lived here as an atheist, you'd understand, I think.

[Cyberman]

Yes but they should be able to believe what they want to believe. I mean if they are religious and what they believe isn't harmful or sways peoples views around them then they should be able to believe what ever they want...

Though only if it isn't harmful...

They're going to do that anyway, whatever we or anyone else think.

[Faith No More]

Though only if it isn't harmful...

And therein lies the rub.

I used to feel just like you, but as an American, the harm that I saw religion cause became too great to ignore. It's insidious, and a "live and let live" attitude just allows the religious zealots to walk all over you.

As each day passes, it gets harder and harder to ignore the inevitable harm that religion brings with it.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Its not like someone tells you "Hey god exist" And you instantly believe them. In the end, when you're grown up or a teenager you can think for you're self if you believe in god or not.

What I'm trying to say if a religious person wants to change an Atheist point of view, just attacking them for what they believe in isn't going to work, same with religious people and let them come to their own conclusion.

Actually the above is exactly how many (most?) people fall into a religion; they're told as impressionable young children that a god exists and that people who don't believe in that god go to hell. I'm from the UK and went to a CofE state primary school. My first memory of the indoctrination process there was the teaching of Noah and the 'good news' of the story. I was told, subtly, almost through subliminal messaging, that the good guy (Noah) was saved whilst the baddies (everyone else, including children, un born children mind!) were murdered and went to hell (though not in usual colorful language).

So I have to disagree. Without the indoctrination of children the overwhelming vast majority of belief systems, be they religious or anything else, would die out within generations.

Also, nobodies beliefs have to respected. If you or I want to take the piss out of someone's beliefs, then that's our right. Nobody's beliefs are sacrosanct, and none are beyond or above criticism and ridicule. That's the right of everyone who lives in a free society. It's also the thing that many religions try to suppress and outlaw.

Also, FWIW, religion in the UK is not harmless. It's very much still a driving force for the behaviors of very influential actors. Only the other day Dave 'look at my forehead' Cameron came out saying he wanted to infuse his government's policies with ideas derived from Christianity, and that the UK was a Christian nation (which is hogwash if you look at recent demographics of religion throughout the UK
). Minority religions are also increasingly growing in influence, notably Islam and minority Christian sects. And their influence can be seen throughout all levels of local and national government.

I'd love to live in a 'live and let live' world, because that would undoubtedly be a more peaceful one. But that's not the world we live in at the moment.

[Foxaèr]

Also, nobodies beliefs have to respected. If you or I want to take the piss out of someone's beliefs, then that's our right. Nobody's beliefs are sacrosanct, and none are beyond or above criticism and ridicule. That's the right of everyone who lives in a free society. It's also the thing that many religions try to suppress and outlaw.

I often forget this. Thanks for reminding me.

[archangle]

It works where I've been in the UK, in works in my small market town near london, why can't other people in different countries do it?

Why can't we just accept each others believe's and non believes? This is how I've been brought up and I wish everyone else had been brought up simile.

I don't care if you're christian.

I don't care if you're muslim.

I don't care if you're religious

I don't care if you're an atheist.

I don't believe in a god and maybe you do? Then so what? We believe different things but whats so wrong with that?

Can't atheist just accept we can't change religious peoples believes. They can believe what they want to believe, okay!!???

And can't Religious people just accept that you can't change our views, especially quoting things from religious books, which I have had done to me on the internet before.

So you're going to try and make me believe in god by quoting lines from a certain religious book that is mean-less to me is not going to do it...Okay...right, let me know how well that works out for you...

And to atheist people, talking to them about evolution and the orgion of fossils isn't going to work because they probably don't believe in Evolution or where we believe fossils came from

Its like quoting things from a religious book, the bible, won't change my believes because I don't believe in the quotes. If I don't believe in them then why would it help "change" me?

Sometimes I admit I can be quite nasty about religion but thats only when I'm trying to defend myself when some religious person is nasty about me being an Atheist first. And all these confrontations for me has aways been over the internet.

So yeah thats it.

Why, can't we just accept each others believes? Its so easy! I do it everyday and I'm 18. Everyone I know in my town or where I've been in the UK does it quite easily.

I know some people won't listen but some of you might, some of you that have always been trying to convert Atheists Or Atheists trying to stop religious people in believing in god.

To both sides, stop trying okay! We just need to accept it. Not stop it.

Jesus agrees with you.

There is no need to be assholes on either side

[Tonus]

But there are atheists who were once theists, and vice-versa. People can change their views.

Yes but thats you're choice isn't it? You can change you're own views I'm just saying you shouldn't force you're views on to other people especially in most cases it won't work.

I was responding to the part of your post where you stated that we should accept that we "can't change" the views of other people. But people can and do change each other's beliefs all the time. For certain religions and religious denominations, it is part of their belief system that they must try to convert others. They cannot accept that people cannot change their views.

[Bad Wolf]

Yes but not every person who believes in God is harmful so they don't need to be an Atheist thats what I've been trying to say.

So people that believe in god but keep it to themselves and don't try and change other peoples views. Thats when you are not meant to try and change them to atheism because they aren't doing any harm.

Only people who take it to extremes or do or say something nasty then explain their behaviour as okay because of god. Thats harmful, they're the people that I welcome other people (Not myself) to try and change them or attack and hate on their belief.

Moderate religious people are harmful. They pave the way for religious extremist. Moderates make strange religious rituals, seem normal. They change the culture of a population slowly to be more accepting of their views.

[RobbyPants]

Can't atheist just accept we can't change religious peoples believes. They can believe what they want to believe, okay!!???

Sure, it's an anecdote, but I stopped believing in God in large part because I actually started to listen to atheists instead of dismissing them out of hand. It's not like there's no value to pointing out bad arguments and flawed reasoning.