Why can't we accept it?

[fr0d0]

I will never to be one of them

That's the danger

The "them and us" divide. That's what starts wars.

It's good in that it's a natural tribal defence of a gene pool. It's bad as variety strengthens it.

Being open minded to other ideas is weak and your ideology will die a natural death.
Be dogmatic and you'll gain followers who will someday realise there are actually two sides to any story, and your ideology will die a natural death.

[Atheist And Proud]

Yes but not every person who believes in God is harmful so they don't need to be an Atheist thats what I've been trying to say.

The point in this instance, then, should not be reliant upon the concept of harm. Rather, it should be based on the reasonable understanding of valuing the harsh truth over the comfortable lie.

There is no valid, logical reason to believe in that which there is no evidence to support its existence. Making the claim that religious belief makes theists feel good is begging the question.

All i'm trying to say is people should be able to believe in what they want. Aslong as it doesn't affect other people around them. I mean I know a couple of religious people that are really nice people, they don't try to change my views or anything....

---

AAP, you don't understand how insidious religious creep has become in this country, the USA.

I remember a time when things were more like they are in the UK. You believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, and you keep yours in church, and I'll keep mine to myself. But that's no longer the case.

A big part of the growing fundamentalist Xtian movement in the USA is not only to proselytize, but to impose those beliefs directly into the government that governs us all. For a long time, atheists took the laissez faire approach you advocate. What we have gotten for our live-and-let-live approach is the Ten Commandments shoved in our faces at courthouses throughout the country; a fully false but now quite persistent meme that our nation was founded as a Xtian nation (exactly the opposite is in fact true); public meetings now opened with prayer. Atheists here have begun to realize that if they don't fight back, we will lose our rights to ignore what Xtians believe. The militancy of certain religious groups here is hard to grasp unless you have lived it. Shunning is a big tool in their toolbox.

I have a wonderful community of non-believer friends. It's not hard to form a community without religion if you choose to do that.

I'm all for letting people believe what they want and always have been. But I am no longer indifferent to the harm I suffer from the spread of religious practices within my government. I speak out much more often now, and I'll continue to do so.

I am also incapable of putting even a tacit imprimatur on the validity of notions that don't withstand even the most basic scrutiny with a critical eye. To put the creation story up as an equally valid alternative to, say, the fossil record, is, in my opinion, an insult to the nobility of science and its reliability as a method. One is a pretty story so people don't have to think about things too much; the other is the truth. When someone tells me they don't "believe" in evolution, they may as well say they don't "believe" in the food they're eating as we enjoy our lunch.

If you lived here as an atheist, you'd understand, I think.

Still on every single religious person in America is going to be nasty about Atheists.

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Yes but they should be able to believe what they want to believe. I mean if they are religious and what they believe isn't harmful or sways peoples views around them then they should be able to believe what ever they want...

Though only if it isn't harmful...

They're going to do that anyway, whatever we or anyone else think.

not all religious people think that way. I know a few religious people that are really friendly despite the fact I'm an atheist

[tommynba]

Why can't we just accept each others believe's and non believes?

Because some beliefs are just dumb and harmful, and i'd like to have as many true beliefs as possible.
I never tried to deconvert anybody, but if someone starts to talk about things that i know are bullshit i'm gonna comment on it and at least let them know that it isn't true.

[KichigaiNeko]

A better question would be ....
"Why can't believers accept the fact that not everyone will follow their pet world view? "

---

Atheists don't give a fuck. We're too busy having fun doing science (or at the very least learning what science has uncovered)

[archangle]

Yes but not every person who believes in God is harmful so they don't need to be an Atheist thats what I've been trying to say.

So people that believe in god but keep it to themselves and don't try and change other peoples views. Thats when you are not meant to try and change them to atheism because they aren't doing any harm.

Only people who take it to extremes or do or say something nasty then explain their behaviour as okay because of god. Thats harmful, they're the people that I welcome other people (Not myself) to try and change them or attack and hate on their belief.

Moderate religious people are harmful. They pave the way for religious extremist. Moderates make strange religious rituals, seem normal. They change the culture of a population slowly to be more accepting of their views.

"next thing ya know we will be killing religious people because they don't believe what we believe.

our no-god is better than your god. Only evil people believe in "something" when we have the true clarity logic and reason of "nothing". And we don't need justification for killing in the name of nothing neither.

yep, I want this man as our leader all right.

[Jacob(smooth)]

It works where I've been in the UK, in works in my small market town near london, why can't other people in different countries do it?

Why can't we just accept each others believe's and non believes? This is how I've been brought up and I wish everyone else had been brought up simile.

I don't care if you're christian.

I don't care if you're muslim.

I don't care if you're religious

I don't care if you're an atheist.

I don't believe in a god and maybe you do? Then so what? We believe different things but whats so wrong with that?

Can't atheist just accept we can't change religious peoples believes. They can believe what they want to believe, okay!!???

And can't Religious people just accept that you can't change our views, especially quoting things from religious books, which I have had done to me on the internet before.

So you're going to try and make me believe in god by quoting lines from a certain religious book that is mean-less to me is not going to do it...Okay...right, let me know how well that works out for you...

And to atheist people, talking to them about evolution and the orgion of fossils isn't going to work because they probably don't believe in Evolution or where we believe fossils came from

Its like quoting things from a religious book, the bible, won't change my believes because I don't believe in the quotes. If I don't believe in them then why would it help "change" me?

Sometimes I admit I can be quite nasty about religion but thats only when I'm trying to defend myself when some religious person is nasty about me being an Atheist first. And all these confrontations for me has aways been over the internet.

So yeah thats it.

Why, can't we just accept each others believes? Its so easy! I do it everyday and I'm 18. Everyone I know in my town or where I've been in the UK does it quite easily.

I know some people won't listen but some of you might, some of you that have always been trying to convert Atheists Or Atheists trying to stop religious people in believing in god.

To both sides, stop trying okay! We just need to accept it. Not stop it.

Perhaps you can accept a rep point. I like the way you think.

[Cyberman]

They're going to do that anyway, whatever we or anyone else think.

not all religious people think that way. I know a few religious people that are really friendly despite the fact I'm an atheist

That's quite the non-sequitur - nobody mentioned their being friendly, only having the right to think as they like.

[ElDinero]

All i'm trying to say is people should be able to believe in what they want. Aslong as it doesn't affect other people around them. I mean I know a couple of religious people that are really nice people, they don't try to change my views or anything....

I'm coming in blind here, I haven't read the preceding replies so apologies if this is re-treading ground - it probably bears repeating though.

From my point of view, I agree with the paragraph I've quoted above. People certainly do have the right to believe whatever they like, even stupid, harmful, bigoted, dangerous things. It would be better if they didn't, of course, and through discourse I would seek to change peoples' views on any dangerous beliefs I felt they had. But people have for sure got the right to believe whatever.

The problem comes, AAP, when the religious attempt to make policy based simply off the back of being religious. I'm talking about religious attempts to encroach on legislation in fields like politics, health, and education, among others. I also am not going to be preached to, or allow stupid statements to go unchallenged. This may be where you and I differ, but if someone says something I don't feel is correct, I'm usually going to call them out on it.

So essentially, I agree that people can hold their beliefs. But if they're going to express them, or try and influence policy off the back of their stupid, unproven theories, I have the right to disagree. Loudly.

'Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake - the grave will supply plenty of time for silence'

[Atheist And Proud]

All i'm trying to say is people should be able to believe in what they want. Aslong as it doesn't affect other people around them. I mean I know a couple of religious people that are really nice people, they don't try to change my views or anything....

I'm coming in blind here, I haven't read the preceding replies so apologies if this is re-treading ground - it probably bears repeating though.

From my point of view, I agree with the paragraph I've quoted above. People certainly do have the right to believe whatever they like, even stupid, harmful, bigoted, dangerous things. It would be better if they didn't, of course, and through discourse I would seek to change peoples' views on any dangerous beliefs I felt they had. But people have for sure got the right to believe whatever.

The problem comes, AAP, when the religious attempt to make policy based simply off the back of being religious. I'm talking about religious attempts to encroach on legislation in fields like politics, health, and education, among others. I also am not going to be preached to, or allow stupid statements to go unchallenged. This may be where you and I differ, but if someone says something I don't feel is correct, I'm usually going to call them out on it.

So essentially, I agree that people can hold their beliefs. But if they're going to express them, or try and influence policy off the back of their stupid, unproven theories, I have the right to disagree. Loudly.

'Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake - the grave will supply plenty of time for silence'

Thats exactly what I agree with

[Lemonvariable72]

Name one thing that religion does that can't be acheived through secular means.
I'll wait.....
You can't, and that is exactly my point.
It is not only unnecessary but (as many others have pointed out) harmful.

Yes but not every person who believes in God is harmful so they don't need to be an Atheist thats what I've been trying to say.

So people that believe in god but keep it to themselves and don't try and change other peoples views. Thats when you are not meant to try and change them to atheism because they aren't doing any harm.

Only people who take it to extremes or do or say something nasty then explain their behaviour as okay because of god. Thats harmful, they're the people that I welcome other people (Not myself) to try and change them or attack and hate on their belief.

That's the issue, its not people taking extremes but rather following their holy book. The bible is not on the side of moderates.