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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 9, 2010 at 11:30 am
(January 8, 2010 at 8:27 am)tackattack Wrote: often. That's the main pruport of my joining this community. Constant reflection of self is important to me personally. Generally on most days my belief outweighs my faith though. And before we get into then why believe in something that's not real question. I feel the proof should be in the pudding. Scientif theories should be supported by scientific evidence, historical truth by historical evidence, mathmatical certainty through the application of mathmatics, etc. I find I have substantial nonsubstanial (not unsubstantiatable)evidence of insubstantial beliefs. .. I think I've gone past tired with that remark you'll have to forgive me.
So what is something that is "insubstantial"? How do you prove something that is "insubstantial" exists?
Could you define your term. By insubstantial do you mean "spirit?" (Whatever that is.) How can you define something "insubstantial" unless you compare it to something substantial?
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 9, 2010 at 12:12 pm
(January 9, 2010 at 11:30 am)LEDO Wrote:
[/quote]
A plethera of things are insubstantial. Thought, will, reason, logic, intuition, consciousness, the holy spirit, God/gods, spirits, the square root of -1, imaginary numbers, etc. Insubstantial by my definition lies outside of the material real, yet within existance. You would prove such a thing exists with supporting evidence (albeit very subjective). And as far as a comparison, that's the problems with religion. They compare God to man and give him humanistic characteristics which go past a line of subjectivity for me.
(January 9, 2010 at 9:35 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:
I don't look for proof either usually, however when it pops up in my face I don't turn a blind eye to it either.
(January 9, 2010 at 9:15 am)Zen Badger Wrote: And how did you use logic and reality to prove the existence of God? I'm not going into the different proof again, some have already been stated and proven subjective or fallicious. God can't help being a strawman because it's outside our realms of understanding of our known universe. It's a strawman to say I have the burden of proof when the definition of proof is subjective. God is an argument to the future , because we have yet to see his wonder. I can't even be an expert in my own opinion because God is an Argument From Authority. Trying to Reify God is pointless. God for me is common sense, but that too is a fallacy. Frankly, lots of what I've seen on here, from wordplay to quoting , to picking apart every definition of every word is a giant Argument By Selective Observation.
I see God's handiwork every day (whether I want to or not consciously[/b]) and that is my reality. I don't ask you to share in my reality or belief and am quite certain that you don't care to.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 9, 2010 at 10:53 pm
So you compare God to imaginary numbers...okay.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 1:06 am
No I stated some examples of insubstantial things and you picked 2 and tried to equivocate them. I will say I compare some (very) basic aspects God exibits share similarities with imaginary numbers, among other things.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 4:08 am
"God is an Argument From Authority"
I'm assuming that the "Authority" quoted is the Bible.
I've encountered this one before.
"God is real because the Bible says so,
So where does the Bible get it's authority from?
Why, the Bible, of course.."
And yes, God does share basic similarities with imaginary numbers.
Being imaginary, for starters.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 10:55 am
Above supporting my statement that all atheists want to do is pick apart an argument cover it in every, smarmy comment, historically fallacious argumentative data, pages of historic "evidence" until the idea gets so chopped up and reconstituted it's unrecognizable.
No I said "I can't even be an expert in my own opinion because God is an Argument From Authority."
The authority referenced is God's revelations to me personally reflecting in my intuition and personal opinion and not the bible.
I will admit that God's imaginary the second atheists admit God exists. No qualifiers, no double-entendre, no excess wording, simple.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 11:47 am
Admit even. As if we deny it.
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 12:47 pm
(January 10, 2010 at 10:55 am)tackattack Wrote: The authority referenced is God's revelations to me personally reflecting in my intuition and personal opinion and not the bible. The Argument From Authority is a fallacy. It is like saying my reasoning is not contradictive it's circular. Wait a minute, who said that?
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 10, 2010 at 3:27 pm
(January 10, 2010 at 10:55 am)tackattack Wrote: Above supporting my statement that all atheists want to do is pick apart an argument cover it in every, smarmy comment, historically fallacious argumentative data, pages of historic "evidence" until the idea gets so chopped up and reconstituted it's unrecognizable.
No I said "I can't even be an expert in my own opinion because God is an Argument From Authority."
The authority referenced is God's revelations to me personally reflecting in my intuition and personal opinion and not the bible.
I will admit that God's imaginary the second atheists admit God exists. No qualifiers, no double-entendre, no excess wording, simple.
God told me only atheists go to heaven because she finds rational men sexy. 
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RE: Scientific method proves order cannot exist w/o intelligence
January 11, 2010 at 8:30 am
(January 10, 2010 at 10:55 am)tackattack Wrote: Above supporting my statement that all atheists want to do is pick apart an argument cover it in every, smarmy comment, historically fallacious argumentative data, pages of historic "evidence" until the idea gets so chopped up and reconstituted it's unrecognizable.
No I said "I can't even be an expert in my own opinion because God is an Argument From Authority."
The authority referenced is God's revelations to me personally reflecting in my intuition and personal opinion and not the bible.
I will admit that God's imaginary the second atheists admit God exists. No qualifiers, no double-entendre, no excess wording, simple.
Well of course we pick apart arguments, what did you expect? we're atheists and therefore sceptics.
And if your argument can't withstand scrutiny and examination then it's not much of an argument.
"historically fallacious argumentative data" in what way is it fallacious???
Because it disagrees with the Bible??
And I have to ask, how did God communicate his revelations personally to you?
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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