Truth.. and what you know

[ska88]

Hello everyone.

I’ve always liked to discuss terms and meanings..

what I want to discuss today is the difference between "The Truth" and "What you know"


The truth is always there but no one can say this is it!! If someone did .. then that means that he is in deep ignorance.

Can you count on what you know to define the truth?!


How can you be close to the truth as much as you can??

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

So now.. what is truth? how attached are you with what you know?

and the big question is .. if you knew that the truth is with your enemy.. are you brave enough to admit?

[Violet]

Nothing is true... everything is permitted.

The truth lies around with all the crazies... we sane people know to steer clear of it.

[bennyboy]

You can have truth, but you can only know whether your ideas are true in a given context.

In the context of eating an apple, it is true that I am enjoying it. Whether the apple and I "really" exist, or whether I'm just an illusion, or a figment of the Mind of God, or a character in the Matrix, is not knowable. That transcendent context is not accessible to us. But eating an apple will always just be eating an apple. And that's truth.

The problem comes when people have ideas that they think represent a truth of a level that is inaccessible to humans-- for example, if they claim to know why the universe exists rather than not existing. That is delusion, and possibly pride as well.

[ska88]

Nothing is true... everything is permitted.

The truth lies around with all the crazies... we sane people know to steer clear of it.

Its like you are implying for something specific.

You know what.. I even can't say if someone is sane or crazy?!

Does thinking differently makes someone crazy?! And thinking like me makes someone sane .. like me?!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

---

You can have truth, but you can only know whether your ideas are true in a given context.

In the context of eating an apple, it is true that I am enjoying it. Whether the apple and I "really" exist, or whether I'm just an illusion, or a figment of the Mind of God, or a character in the Matrix, is not knowable. That transcendent context is not accessible to us. But eating an apple will always just be eating an apple. And that's truth.

The problem comes when people have ideas that they think represent a truth of a level that is inaccessible to humans-- for example, if they claim to know why the universe exists rather than not existing. That is delusion, and possibly pride as well.

exactly

While I was I student we studied logic.. and one rule was saying that.. to prove that something is wrong, ONLY one mistake is enough. But to prove that something is right you have to test it on infinit options... thats tough!

You know when I was a kid I thought I'm the only real human in the world and the rest are no more than actors or supernatural creatures

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

Excellent point.

This has always struck me at the fundamental division between science and religion. Naturally, the occasional religionist will admit to error, the usual outcome of which is to either change faiths or (more sensibly) to abandon faith entirely. But such occurrences are about as rare as pandas. Converts don't make up a significant percentage of any religion (I except the recent waves of nuttiness like Jediism and Wicca). It can be said with some justice that 'stuck on wrong' is the default status of religion.

Science, on the other hand, is utterly and absolutely dependent on error. Or, more accurately, on finding and fixing errors. This is the process which brings human beings closer to the truth. Granted, there are individual scientist who can be just as pigheaded about changing their minds - even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - as religionists are about changing theirs. But again, this is rare. If scientists didn't accept new ideas on a more or less regular basis, we'd be looking at astrological charts to find propitious days for space launches, or trying to cure cancer with 'healing' crystals.

'I know because God told me' is the credo of religion. 'I don't know, but I'm going to bloody well find out' is what makes science work.

Boru

[ska88]

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

Excellent point.

This has always struck me at the fundamental division between science and religion. Naturally, the occasional religionist will admit to error, the usual outcome of which is to either change faiths or (more sensibly) to abandon faith entirely. But such occurrences are about as rare as pandas. Converts don't make up a significant percentage of any religion (I except the recent waves of nuttiness like Jediism and Wicca). It can be said with some justice that 'stuck on wrong' is the default status of religion.

Science, on the other hand, is utterly and absolutely dependent on error. Or, more accurately, on finding and fixing errors. This is the process which brings human beings closer to the truth. Granted, there are individual scientist who can be just as pigheaded about changing their minds - even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - as religionists are about changing theirs. But again, this is rare. If scientists didn't accept new ideas on a more or less regular basis, we'd be looking at astrological charts to find propitious days for space launches, or trying to cure cancer with 'healing' crystals.

'I know because God told me' is the credo of religion. 'I don't know, but I'm going to bloody well find out' is what makes science work.

Boru

Great thinking.

You know what I think about scientists and religionists?

I think being arrogant in accepting the truth has nothing to do with a religion or scientific facts. I think it depends on a person's integrity and personality... how decent you are when dealing with knowledge.

people who stick with their knowledge while they know for sure that they are wrong are injust to themselves.. and those people can be theist, religious, atheists, scientists.. that type of personality can be seen in various styles..

and shutting the truth .. is harmful for religion, god, big bang theory, atheists .. ONLY

It can also obstructs science , political issues, justice in the world.. many things can be affected.

thanx for that great thought

[MindForgedManacle]

Hello everyone.

I’ve always liked to discuss terms and meanings..

what I want to discuss today is the difference between "The Truth" and "What you know"


The truth is always there but no one can say this is it!! If someone did .. then that means that he is in deep ignorance.

Can you count on what you know to define the truth?!


How can you be close to the truth as much as you can??

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

So now.. what is truth? how attached are you with what you know?

and the big question is .. if you knew that the truth is with your enemy.. are you brave enough to admit?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Are you asking what the difference between "truth" and "knowledge" is, asking how we know if anything is true, or what?

Nothing is true... everything is permitted.

Is it true that "Nothing is true."? If so, then the statement is false. If not, then it's meaningless.

This is we shouldn't go post-modernist! xD

You can have truth, but you can only know whether your ideas are true in a given context.

In the context of eating an apple, it is true that I am enjoying it. Whether the apple and I "really" exist, or whether I'm just an illusion, or a figment of the Mind of God, or a character in the Matrix, is not knowable. That transcendent context is not accessible to us. But eating an apple will always just be eating an apple. And that's truth.

You seem to be confusing existence with a particular type of existence. After all, it was never in question that Neo existed in the Matrix, only what the nature of that existence was (virtual).

The problem comes when people have ideas that they think represent a truth of a level that is inaccessible to humans-- for example, if they claim to know why the universe exists rather than not existing. That is delusion, and possibly pride as well.

If they claim to know - especially if they claim no possibility of error - I'd agree. However, I think one can have a reasonable, defensible belief on this matter, given certain philosophical views.

[Losty]

I think most truth is subjective. I can know thing to be true, but every time I learn something new my perception of truth is slightly altered. Maybe it doesn't mean my original idea of truth wasn't true, but more like my new idea of truth is even more true. And maybe my idea of truth is only true for me. In any case I think education is the most important thing (not necessarily formal education), the more you learn the closer you are to truth.

[Brian37]

Hello everyone.

I’ve always liked to discuss terms and meanings..

what I want to discuss today is the difference between "The Truth" and "What you know"


The truth is always there but no one can say this is it!! If someone did .. then that means that he is in deep ignorance.

Can you count on what you know to define the truth?!


How can you be close to the truth as much as you can??

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

So now.. what is truth? how attached are you with what you know?

and the big question is .. if you knew that the truth is with your enemy.. are you brave enough to admit?

So the best way to determine what the "truth" is is to simply swallow this woo and throw our hands up and say "This is wordy, sounds intellectual, so Allah is the one true god"?

Now take this same argument you typed here and ask yourself if you would become a Christian or a Jew if they made this same argument to you.

Now a dose of reality for all of you.

The best way to determine the most accurate description of the nature of reality is, when you have multiple competing claims, is to take those claims into a neutral setting, put the claims under an established test with control groups, be able to test and falsify those claims, and then subject the claim to peer review to insure your starting data, methodology and formula and output data are correct. If your claim gets through all that, you are onto something. If it does not, you start over or you scrap it.

Bottom line what you typed was meaningless drivel.

[Losty]

Hello everyone.

I’ve always liked to discuss terms and meanings..

what I want to discuss today is the difference between "The Truth" and "What you know"


The truth is always there but no one can say this is it!! If someone did .. then that means that he is in deep ignorance.

Can you count on what you know to define the truth?!


How can you be close to the truth as much as you can??

I think being truthful and trying to know the truth depends on how tolerant you are with other ideas and opinions.. how strong you are to change your mind if discovered that you are wrong .. how brave you are to say I don’t know .. and how deep you are to open your mind for others and hear their opinions with the possibility that they can be right..

So now.. what is truth? how attached are you with what you know?

and the big question is .. if you knew that the truth is with your enemy.. are you brave enough to admit?

So the best way to determine what the "truth" is is to simply swallow this woo and throw our hands up and say "This is wordy, sounds intellectual, so Allah is the one true god"?

Now take this same argument you typed here and ask yourself if you would become a Christian or a Jew if they made this same argument to you.

Now a dose of reality for all of you.

The best way to determine the most accurate description of the nature of reality is, when you have multiple competing claims, is to take those claims into a neutral setting, put the claims under an established test with control groups, be able to test and falsify those claims, and then subject the claim to peer review to insure your starting data, methodology and formula and output data are correct. If your claim gets through all that, you are onto something. If it does not, you start over or you scrap it.

Bottom line what you typed was meaningless drivel.

Did I somehow miss that this was about Allah? Damn I have to start paying more attention.