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About other gods-question for theists
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Listen. Evaluate. Learn.
It'll take just 15 minutes. It's part of a debate the bulk of which is on YouTube.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
(July 5, 2014 at 9:13 pm)Lek Wrote: Why couldn't the church know who wrote those books? Even if they were written a generation or two after Christ died, that's not a long time to pass down knowledge of authorship. If my father or grandfather wrote a book as important as that I'm sure I would know.Indeed, why couldn't they? The argument could be made that they really should. Yet they don't - anymore than anyone else might. I suppose what might have thrown investigators off - with regards to determining the authorship of these narratives - is all the time they wasted trying to find evidence that fit the narratives. Bible and spade type shit. It's unsurprising that we wouldn't know who wrote those books by now- given that we piddled around looking for some ridiculous "moses" to begin with.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
My view is all knowledge of the authors had faded away with time, and no one preserved this knowledge (as far as I know).
 RE: About other gods-question for theists
July 5, 2014 at 11:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2014 at 11:23 pm by Lek.)
(July 5, 2014 at 10:08 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Listen. Evaluate. Learn. In order to evaluate the excerpt properly I'd like to listen to the full debate. I'm sure Bart Ehrman didn't agree with Craig Evan's line of reasoning. Mr Evans mentioned a few textual variances which don't declare any doctrine that's not supported by other verses in the bible. He talks of "hundreds of thousands" of mistakes in transcription. He failed to mention whether or not these "errors" changed any doctrine. That would have been a strong argument for his position if they had. What were the quality of the errors? Were they mostly leaving out an inconsequential word? How many actually changed the meaning of the verse? When the dead sea scrolls were discovered they found ancient copies of old testament scriptures, and experts were amazed that they read almost identical with copies 900 years apart. No meaning had been changed. He cited a couple of verses that were considered textual variances concerning the trinity and the divinity of Jesus as if these were the only verses that supported these doctrines. If I am to believe in an omnipotent God who created the universe, I'm surely going to believe that he can assure that his word is passed from generation to generation without changing what he wants to be contained in that word. And it doesn't have to be by ensuring that no transcription errors occur. I love how God uses imperfect humans to carry out his work. You say "if there's a transcription error that kills it all." I get a kick out of how you guys jump all over fundamentalist christians, but when you try to interpret scripture you interpret it in a wooden literal sense far more strictly than the most fundamental of fundamentalists. RE: About other gods-question for theists
July 5, 2014 at 11:30 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2014 at 11:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I wouldn't want to ruin any of Ehrmans work, but yes, the errors do have a profound effect on doctrine. Such a profound effect - that he managed to write an entire book about it. More than one, really.
-There's just that much error to discuss On an unrelated note (to ehrman), has it ever occurred to you that maybe god didn't care about any of the things you find in the bible. I mean, sure, he could preserve what he wanted to, but why would he want to preserve anything between those pages in the first place. Assumptions assumptions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(July 5, 2014 at 11:30 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I wouldn't want to ruin any of Ehrmans work, but yes, the errors do have a profound effect on doctrine. Such a profound effect - that he managed to write an entire book about it. More than one, really. I don't know of Ehrman's work, but if that's what he thinks, he disagrees with most respected christian theologians. As for why God would want to preserve anything between those pages, I can't imagine. RE: About other gods-question for theists
July 5, 2014 at 11:44 pm
(This post was last modified: July 5, 2014 at 11:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 5, 2014 at 11:42 pm)Lek Wrote: I don't know of Ehrman's work, but if that's what he thinks, he disagrees with most respected christian theologians.Sure, not everyone agrees. The man does, however, show his work. The things he points out are there for everyone to see in the black and white (and sometimes aren't there just as damningly) Quote:As for why God would want to preserve anything between those pages, I can't imagine.Neither can I. A failure of our imaginations is in no way authoritative - but god not giving a shit about the contents of "his book" might explain how it ended up in such a sorry state. Ghosts and dragons and curses, oh my!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: About other gods-question for theists
July 6, 2014 at 12:14 am
(This post was last modified: July 6, 2014 at 12:32 am by Ravenshire.)
Bart Ehrman is the christer's worst nightmare. A christer and American New Testament scholar who received his PhD from Princeton Theological Seminary, then proceeded to lose his faith from studying the buy-bull, and because of the problem of evil.
Quote:Ehrman became an Evangelical Christian as a teenager. In his books, he recounts his youthful enthusiasm as a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, certain that God had inspired the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error.[2] His desire to understand the original words of the Bible led him to the study of ancient languages and to textual criticism. During his graduate studies, however, he became convinced that there are contradictions and discrepancies in the biblical manuscripts that could not be harmonized or reconciled. He remained a liberal Christian for 15 years but later became an agnostic after struggling with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering.[2]Source According to Ehrman, he claims to be agnostic. He also claims not to believe in the gawd of the buy-bull. Personally, I think he avoids the term atheist because of the baggage it carries.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Does it really make that much more sense coming from a pro like him than one of us saying the bible smells of bullshit? Why waste 30 years working out it's bullshit.
It is common sense and logic after all... different gods, unicorns, faeries? They've always had one thing in common. Our Imagination.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear. |
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