Posts: 4
Threads: 2
Joined: July 3, 2014
Reputation:
0
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:01 pm
Thanks for the responses everyone, I suspected the whole time that there was something wrong with the way they worded that argument. I am actually astonished to realize the amount of deceptive and dishonest tactics used by christians, the more I watch debates online and read material on the internet.
Tubby, I started to write a bit about my de-conversion story, but it got to be about a few pages long! I am not 100% sure yet if I do want to go into all the details yet, it's been a long and slow process, but I feel like I've come a long way. Maybe at some point I'll make a post or blog about the whole thing.
The main thing was the doctrine of eternal torment. I always hated that thing, but felt that I really had no choice. Long story short, it took a major event in my life which dramatically increased my stress level, and I realized I needed to let go of things that caused me stress, my religion being a major one of them. I didn't really think I would let go of the whole thing, but that's what ended up happening, as I started to learn more and more, exploring areas of thought and science that I had before been too afraid to explore, but I had gotten to the point where I really was screaming on the inside for a way out of the nightmare of believing that most of humanity (and quite possibly myself) would be subject to the worst fate you can imagine. And I am happy now that I can say with confidence that the whole thing is bullsh1t!!
Posts: 69265
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:23 pm
(This post was last modified: July 3, 2014 at 9:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 3, 2014 at 9:01 pm)TheDeafPianoTuner Wrote: I am actually astonished to realize the amount of deceptive and dishonest tactics used by christians -when all other options are removed, you go with whatever's left in your toolkit. They ran out of honest options before their religion was even formed. So they're serving from a significant handicap.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8700
Threads: 40
Joined: March 18, 2014
Reputation:
54
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:42 pm
Welcome aboard TheDeafPianoTuner.
The use of the word information by creationists when they're championing they're bullshit is, at best, misdirection and at worst, straight up lying! Complexity has been shown to increase through evolutionary models.
Another bit of bullshit they love to trot out is "We've never seen speciation so you can't say it really happens." It's bullshit too. There have been (tested, verified and repeated speciation events in bacteria in lab environments.
You may want to consider an introduction thread. Let people get to know you a bit. You don't need to tell your whole detailed story. Just hit the high points. Losty will probably even bring cookies.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Posts: 4659
Threads: 123
Joined: June 27, 2014
Reputation:
40
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 3, 2014 at 9:54 pm by Dystopia.)
(July 3, 2014 at 12:34 am)TheDeafPianoTuner Wrote: I've been seeing this argument by creationists that goes something along these lines: "mutations don't increase information in the genes, therefore mutation cannot account for an increase in complexity"
I'm not an pro on mutations or genetics, I don't know a lot about it, I'm more of a social sciences person. I can however tell you I'm surprised there is a creationist smart enough to use that argument. The usual creationist argument is - God created the world because the world can't come from nothing, and since the bible says so it's true, because the world is perfect and there's not way it wasn't made by god's hand. They also frequently say - If evolution is true why are there still monkeys?
I don't even bother arguing with these people anymore
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
Posts: 69265
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:53 pm
(This post was last modified: July 3, 2014 at 9:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 3, 2014 at 9:42 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Another bit of bullshit they love to trot out is "We've never seen speciation so you can't say it really happens." It's bullshit too. There have been (tested, verified and repeated speciation events in bacteria in lab environments. That's nothing, our entire ag system depends on speciations that any botanist could induce -before they even knew what a mutation was-. It's gone beyond "we see it in the lab, in bacteria" to "we leverage it commercially to the tune of billions of dollars of productivity". But if someone wants to see guys in white coats observing, fine, there are an astounding number of verified speciation events clustered around a single crop. Brassica.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8700
Threads: 40
Joined: March 18, 2014
Reputation:
54
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 9:55 pm
Or the ever popular:
"Of course there was a big bang. God spoke and BANG, it happened" 
Unfortunately, there are just enough intelligent religios out there for the masses to be able to Google and parrot.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Posts: 336
Threads: 32
Joined: April 23, 2014
Reputation:
20
RE: Question about creationist argument
July 3, 2014 at 11:42 pm
Posts: 862
Threads: 51
Joined: May 14, 2014
Reputation:
11
Re: RE: Question about creationist argument
July 4, 2014 at 9:02 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2014 at 9:03 am by TubbyTubby.)
(July 3, 2014 at 9:01 pm)TheDeafPianoTuner Wrote: The main thing was the doctrine of eternal torment. I always hated that thing, but felt that I really had no choice.
Fair enough, I'm always a bit curious (nosey) as I never had to go through the 'de-conversion' so to speak. As much as I try to empathise, I can't really as I have never been there. But congratulations to you for breaking free, I'll drink a pint for you this afternoon.
|
