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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2014 at 2:31 pm by Dystopia.)
(July 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (July 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm)Blackout Wrote: I don't disagree with you that often -which ought to make one wonder. not you, specifically, but anybody on your side of the fence. I don't believe in a free market at all. I think it was a terrible idea leaned upon by minds with a poor understanding of the realities of the world around them. My earth is smaller than their earth by a hefty measure. In fact - I take issue with money itself, as nothing more than a rationing system in our modern world.
I would have broken the borders of that damned chart if I hadn't answered one question one particular way. Told you it had a conservative (right) bias.
I've heard the proposal of a resource based economy that would rely on collaboration and not competition, their apologists say it's the only way we will survive in the future (and money would be abolished)
I see it as having a more liberal bias but the standards in europe are different. So what alternative is there for the free market? I want to hear your proposal.
Also being right wing doesn't necessarily equal free market, just look at National Socialism propagated by Hitler. The nationalists in my country dislike capitalism as much as they dislike socialism, they hate both, my bet is they want corporatism.
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 4:10 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't believe in a free market at all. I think it was a terrible idea leaned upon by minds with a poor understanding of the realities of the world around them.
I like the idea of a market for non-essential goods which is regulated to the point where monopolies cannot form and workers get a fair share of what their labor produces (as opposed to all employers being evil and them deserving no more than anyone else). I respect the fact that it takes more to be able to start a business and to run that business. I do not respect the lie that this relatively marginal extra effort and know-how entitles an employer to thousands of times as much money as any of their employees.
Essentials, such as healthcare and basic utilities should not be sold for profit. A basic amount of food and safe shelter should be guaranteed to every individual. The idea that a person can't afford to sustain a secure existence in a country like this is abominable and should not be permitted.
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 7:38 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 4:10 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: (July 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't believe in a free market at all. I think it was a terrible idea leaned upon by minds with a poor understanding of the realities of the world around them.
I like the idea of a market for non-essential goods which is regulated to the point where monopolies cannot form and workers get a fair share of what their labor produces (as opposed to all employers being evil and them deserving no more than anyone else). I respect the fact that it takes more to be able to start a business and to run that business. I do not respect the lie that this relatively marginal extra effort and know-how entitles an employer to thousands of times as much money as any of their employees.
Essentials, such as healthcare and basic utilities should not be sold for profit. A basic amount of food and safe shelter should be guaranteed to every individual. The idea that a person can't afford to sustain a secure existence in a country like this is abominable and should not be permitted.
Completely agree with the last part, and I'm a right wing person, I think that is something even nationalists and conservatives agree or SHOULD agree. There is only one problem - The government can suck at running public services. I'll give my example, we have free healthcare, but most hospitals are bureaucratic and people die in waiting lines, we lack efficiency.
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 7:42 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2014 at 7:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Gov sucks at this? Hardly, it's the only institution that's ever shown even a modicum of talent in that regard. Is it efficient set against a theorietical maximumm? No, Is it efficient set against real world alternatives? ......well...being the only player in the game.......
(I'm a proponent of technocracy, btw, black -with a hellish communist bent)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 7:46 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 7:42 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Gov sucks at this? Hardly, it's the only institution that's ever shown even a modicum of talent in that regard. Is it efficient set against a theorietical maximumm? No, Is it efficient set against real world alternatives? ......well...being the only player in the game.......
(I'm a proponent of technocracy, btw, black -with a hellish communist bent)
Technocracy would be great if it could be implemented to sustain us all.
It depends on the government, I really can't talk about the US, but I've never been to a public service in my country that couldn't be outweighed in quality by private, maybe making an exception regarding public universities, but those aren't run directly by the state, they have autonomy and are run by the director and professors.
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 8:02 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2014 at 8:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Which could easily be the case with any service or utility offered by the state (with regards to directors and professers or experts by any other name). Amiright?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 8:05 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 8:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Which could easily be the case with any service or utility offered by the state (with regards to directors and professers or experts by any other name). Amiright?
Sounds a perfect idea, technocracy for government owned economy, it could work pretty well and prevent the common public sector inefficiencies in allocating resources and being productive.
Public universities only work well because they aren't run directly by the State, they are run by people that actually know how to make things function properly.
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 8:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2014 at 8:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Indeed, I think that governments should provide the energy and food (really just two terms for the same thing) required to conduct our everyday and professional lives. Bonus points for housing and ed - but if they have food/energy covered, I'm willing to bet that housing/ed would be a non-issue.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 8:17 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 8:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Indeed, I think that governments should provide the energy and food (really just two terms for the same thing) required to conduct our everyday and professional lives. Bonus points for housing and ed - but if they have food/energy covered, I'm willing to bet that housing/ed would be a non-issue.
Isn't there welfare pensions? In our case, we have too many people living on welfare that refuse to work. I still predict our social security will bankrupt if it continues giving pensions to anyone who claims to be poor
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RE: Liberal and Conservative Oversimplistic Labels?
July 8, 2014 at 8:23 pm
(July 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (July 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm)Blackout Wrote: I don't disagree with you that often -which ought to make one wonder. not you, specifically, but anybody on your side of the fence. I don't believe in a free market at all. I think it was a terrible idea leaned upon by minds with a poor understanding of the realities of the world around them. My earth is smaller than their earth by a hefty measure. In fact - I take issue with money itself, as nothing more than a rationing system in our modern world.
I would have broken the borders of that damned chart if I hadn't answered one question one particular way. Told you it had a conservative (right) bias.
I suspect you and I hit the same question the same way - I note that our results were damn near identical. :p
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