Islam, the Materialistic Religion

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I would believe you if you provided something other than another claim as evidence (eg. The Quran), and that evidence held up to even the most basic of scrutiny.

Thus far, there's no evidence of anything resembling this allah thing you believe in.

[WinterHold]

I would believe you if you provided something other than another claim as evidence (eg. The Quran), and that evidence held up to even the most basic of scrutiny.

Thus far, there's no evidence of anything resembling this allah thing you believe in.

( 111 ) And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them, don't know that. page 142, Quran.

When should Allah wills ?

( 53 ) That is because Allah would not change a favor which He had bestowed upon a people until they change what is within themselves. And indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing. page 184, Quran.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I would believe you if you provided something other than another claim as evidence (eg. The Quran), and that evidence held up to even the most basic of scrutiny.

Thus far, there's no evidence of anything resembling this allah thing you believe in.

( 111 ) And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them, don't know that. page 142, Quran.

Wow, that's a bit presumptuous of allah isn't it?

When should Allah wills ?

( 53 ) That is because Allah would not change a favor which He had bestowed upon a people until they change what is within themselves. And indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing. page 184, Quran.

I don't need to change anything.

People making claims need to back them up or stop stating that their claims are truthful.

[WinterHold]

Wow, that's a bit presumptuous of allah isn't it?

I call it "Frankness".
You see the Quran has this effect on people. Don't expect god to baby set you, or persuade you.
Especially after he gave you a gift like the human brain.

More info ; this frankness is there to break the human ego. If you have ego, you'll flee from the Quran

another verse that furthermore explains :

( 26 ) Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient. Page 5, The Quran.

I don't need to change anything.
People making claims need to back them up or stop stating that their claims are truthful.

The answer is in the stars and the cherry blossom, that's what makes these claims truthful, what should I do if you chose to blindfold your eyes from them ?

Eventually, the people who didn't blind themselves would see it
Ah, yeah don't change if you don't want to..

also eventually, we will all make sure who was right and who was wrong.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Wow, that's a bit presumptuous of allah isn't it?

I call it "Frankness".
You see the Quran has this effect on people. Don't expect god to baby set you, or persuade you.
Especially after he gave you a gift like the human brain.

There's no evidence that your god has done anything. Evidence points towards my brain being the result of billions of years of evolution.

More info ; this frankness is there to break the human ego. If you have ego, you'll flee from the Quran

Everyone has an ego. I find that theists tend to have the biggest ego going, especially when they proclaim to be special because they happen to believe in the one true god and that they will be 'saved' (from something).

And in general, people flee from the un-evidenced and contracitory quran when they see bloodthirsty megalomaniacs wielding it to justify murder. It does not 'break' people through its intellectual rigour or its power of revelation, it does so through the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun.

another verse that furthermore explains :

( 26 ) Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient. Page 5, The Quran.

All gobbeldygook to me. Citing the quran is not a good way to convince someone the quran is worth more than the generally worthless paper it's written on.

I don't need to change anything.
People making claims need to back them up or stop stating that their claims are truthful.

The answer is in the stars and the cherry blossom, that's what makes these claims truthful, what should I do if you chose to blindfold your eyes from them ?

Re-readwhat I wrote. Provide evidence that culminates in something more than "pretty trees and fluffy animals THUS goddidit!". You're engaging with a forum of skeptics and this is the best you have to offer? Please, come on now.

Eventually, the people who didn't blind themselves would see it
Ah, yeah don't change if you don't want to..

also eventually, we will all make sure who was right and who was wrong.

Right and wrong is relative in many instances, but in this case it's you who is wrong until you can provide something more than airy fairy nonsense about how you are right. Indeed, all you're doing right now is spinning your wheels about how right you are but providing nothing to back that claim up.

If you're giving your best about why I should change, I'm pretty disappointed, especially if this 'change' is supposed to have eternal consequences for me. Is there anyone else we can speak to?

[jesus_wept]

( 111 ) And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them, don't know that. page 142, Quran.

Let me get this straight, Allah creates unbelievers, decides who will believe and then tortures people for eternity for not believing in him?

What an asshole he is.

[Rabb Allah]

( 111 ) And even if We had sent down to them the angels [with the message] and the dead spoke to them [of it] and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them, don't know that. page 142, Quran.

Let me get this straight, Allah creates unbelievers, decides who will believe and then tortures people for eternity for not believing in him?

What an asshole he is.

Yeah I know, you should see how Muslims respond to this. That is where it gets funny. Have you ever heard of a man named Hamza Tzortzis

[JesusHChrist]

So, until Allah "wills" my belief, I can insult Allah, his dipshit prophet Mohamed and his dipshit followers as it must be his "will" that they be insulted. If he didn't like it he could "will" otherwise.

lol

Or, he just might not actually exist.

[Rabb Allah]

So, until Allah "wills" my belief, I can insult Allah, his dipshit prophet Mohamed and his dipshit followers as it must be his "will" that they be insulted. If he didn't like it he could "will" otherwise.

lol

Or, he just might not actually exist.

Muslims try to reconcile this by saying that Allah makes it innate in people's heart that Islam is true. Essentially everything is "Muslim" as everything was designed to submit to Allah as his abd(slave).
Of course this is bullshit since I was never born a Muslim and never heard of it till I was older. Muslims try claiming videos and what not of babies apparently saying the name Allah to prove that people brainwash their children from accepting Islam.
This is why the term kafir literally means "concealer" in the verbal sense. As an infidel knows that Islam is true but only lies. This sort of warped ideology is why Muslims hate infidels so much as they view them as liars who exist to harm them. This is how Muslims keep the cycle of hate going

[jesus_wept]

Let me get this straight, Allah creates unbelievers, decides who will believe and then tortures people for eternity for not believing in him?

What an asshole he is.

Yeah I know, you should see how Muslims respond to this. That is where it gets funny. Have you ever heard of a man named Hamza Tzortzis

Yeah, I watched his debate with Krauss and have seen him talking nonsense a few other times on the net. Isn't he the guy who was forced to backtrack on the"scientific miracles of the Quran" after atheists on the net kept showing him why they were all rubbish?

Edit: Yes he is.

http://therationaliser.blogspot.co.uk/20...s.html?m=1

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-arti...-approach/