Islam, the Materialistic Religion

[Rabb Allah]

I have been ridiculed on reconciling religions into a very secular framework and to the common atheist religions hold no benefit. Having enjoyed theology I love the hell out of religions greatly and one thing I would like to address is the secular interpretations of religions and one in specific, Islam.
Islamic Atheism or Islami Mulhidiyya as I like to call it is very possible and can be done with great ease but many Muslims will not acknowledge although it is extremely possible. One issue I am going to address is miracles and supernatural actions.

The issue in this case all comes down to what is a miracle to a Muslim. A miracle(mud'jiza) is a very simplistic concept for Muslims because the Qur'an itself is considered a miracle and a linguistic miracle at that. The fact stands though that there is nothing spectacular about the Qur'an and that if the Qur'an is a miracle then it is a lousy one.

But what is considered a miracle within the Qur'an is even more simplistic and baffling considering that natural events are miracles according to the Qur'anic point of view.

10:5 "He it is who made the sun a shining brightness and the moon a light, and ordained for it mansions that you might know the computation of years and the reckoning. Allah did not create it but with truth; He makes the signs manifest for a people who know."

55:5 "The sun and moon follow courses exactly computed."

31:29 "Allah makes the night to enter into the day, and he makes the day to enter into the night, and he has made the sun and the moon subservient to you;each pursues its course till an appointed time."

39:5 "He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth; He makes the night cover the day and makes the day overtake the night, and He has made the sun and the moon subservient; each one runs on to an assigned term."

21:31 "And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance."

The Qur'an goes into great details about the 'miracles' of Allah and none of in which are miraculous. All of these things are understood by modern day astronomers and physicists as being the effects of gravity, planetary movements and the forces of tectonic plates.

The concept of miracles and the works of god are indistinguishable from events within the knowledge of scientific understanding. Allah appears as only nature itself when spoken of by Muhammad. When given anthropomorphic features Allah only appears as a wrathful ruler or slave master. No matter the depiction of Allah, the things that make him divine are anything but divine.

[Marsellus Wallace]

I have been ridiculed on reconciling religions into a very secular framework and to the common atheist religions hold no benefit. Having enjoyed theology I love the hell out of religions greatly and one thing I would like to address is the secular interpretations of religions and one in specific, Islam.
Islamic Atheism or Islami Mulhidiyya as I like to call it is very possible and can be done with great ease but many Muslims will not acknowledge although it is extremely possible.

That is truly a big problem, whatever wack shit Muhammed pulled out of his ass and wrote about it in the Quran as a miracle and an act of god, they will buy it .
And you also can't disprove it by giving them the scientific reasons for such things, because they will say that god put these physics to make it work .

[Rabb Allah]

I have been ridiculed on reconciling religions into a very secular framework and to the common atheist religions hold no benefit. Having enjoyed theology I love the hell out of religions greatly and one thing I would like to address is the secular interpretations of religions and one in specific, Islam.
Islamic Atheism or Islami Mulhidiyya as I like to call it is very possible and can be done with great ease but many Muslims will not acknowledge although it is extremely possible.

That is truly a big problem, whatever wack shit Muhammed pulled out of his ass and wrote about it in the Quran as a miracle and an act of god, they will buy it .
And you also can't disprove it by giving them the scientific reasons for such things, because they will say that god put these physics to make it work .

Well having been a Muslim int he past I can easily say that arguing with Rush Limbaugh is more easier than arguing with a Muslim and if they are female, good grief! This is why things like suicide exist I guess.

Muslims will never see the fault of their religion and the Qur'an but I myself love the mistakes with the Qur'an, makes it rather practical when you view it as a historical piece and not divine. Thankfully though, Islam has also produced some of the greatest Atheist like al-Ma'arri

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Mohammed didn't write the Koran. A committee appointed by Uthman wrote it. Chances are there was never a Mohammed depicted as in literature. All of the hadiths are pure made-up BS written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.

[Rabb Allah]

Mohammed didn't write the Koran. A committee appointed by Uthman wrote it. Chances are there was never a Mohammed depicted as in literature. All of the hadiths are pure made-up BS written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.

There are documents that refer to a Muhammad but more specifically a religious conqueror during the time of his existence. Most of these documents are made by Christians and have very vague references about him.
The literature concerning Muhammad, especially the Sunnah is pretty much BS through and through considering that you have Muhammad depicted as every kind of person. He is depicted as a very nice and loving guy then all the sudden a crazed murder and pervert then he is upright and moral. His entire behavior in the Kutub al-Sittah is ludicrous. With Shi'iyyah it is even worse! You have a completely different set of historical events that are profoundly contradictory along with a Muhammad whose Qur'an is not well preserved.
If you wanna justify killing your neighbor "There's a Hadith for that" and if you wanna justify fucking his wife there is a hadith for that to. The religious concept of Muhammad was most likely added on later to the actual Muhammad who was no doubt a prolific conqueror.
Also Uthman just wrote the current edition of the Qur'an we see now and there are manuscripts that predate Uthman.
It seems like there is a reoccurring theme with how the life's of great men are embellished over the centuries.

[Welsh cake]

I know nothing of Islam (I prefer to keep it that way) and have no understanding of the scriptures whatsoever, mostly due to the cultural differences and barriers. I honestly cannot comment on the assertion of there being an Islamic Atheism movement.

However, the Qur'an being a miracle? Are you having a laugh?

[Rabb Allah]

I know nothing of Islam (I prefer to keep it that way) and have no understanding of the scriptures whatsoever, mostly due to the cultural differences and barriers. I honestly cannot comment on the assertion of there being an Islamic Atheism movement.

However, the Qur'an being a miracle? Are you having a laugh?

I would recommend you to be versed on Islam a bit as it makes for a good conversation piece when discussing stupid people. Take it from a murtad(apostate).

The Qur'an is a miracle the same way that James Cameron's movie Avatar was a miracle. It just looks pretty and sounds like a cool idea and when you watch it you find it awesome. But when it is not in 3D and you see it at your home tele you find it to be garbage and nothing but a repeat, "Dancing With Aliens" or "Intergalactic Pocahontas" as I call it.

The Qur'an is no different and only appeals to people who really want it to be special or divine. It is actually a flop for the major part but has a nice aura about it. When you recite it in Arabic, it is beautiful. When you understand it's message you are like "WHAT THE FUCK!?". The Qur'an expands upon the Judaic mythology and makes this deity seem even more bipolar after you have the advent of Christianity. It just makes things become confusing and as a former Muslim I was fucking confused alright.

Trying to digest the Qur'an is harder than trying to get a laugh out of Sarah Silverman. You want them to make sense but they do not.

[Bibliofagus]

I'm not sure I understand the use of all this. Are you planning to convince muslims of your point of view?

If so: what's the use?
Why not focus on 'misinterpretations' of the quran that are actually harmfull to people? Like the shit on gays, unbelievers etc, stuff that is actually negatively impacting peoples lives? You appear to be rooting for losing the supernatural, while keeping the rules the quran lays out.

[Rabb Allah]

I'm not sure I understand the use of all this. Are you planning to convince muslims of your point of view?

If so: what's the use?
Why not focus on 'misinterpretations' of the quran that are actually harmfull to people? Like the shit on gays, unbelievers etc, stuff that is actually negatively impacting peoples lives? You appear to be rooting for losing the supernatural, while keeping the rules the quran lays out.

No I am just having fun with this realization. It has been tickling me ever since I noticed it. I just want to point out the absurdity of the Qur'an and the overall Islamic positions on matters. Islam actually is knee deep in materialism.
For example, nowhere does the spirit become separate from the body. The concepts of a spirit is added on through a few hadiths and Sufi teachings. When a person dies int he Qur'an it is merely an inversion of matter.
The person dies in this world but gets reincarnated into the other world. There is no soul, no metaphysical spirit and no floating minds.

al-An'am 60: "And it is He who takes your souls by night and knows what you have committed by day. Then He revives you therein that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then to Him will be your return; then He will inform you about what you used to do."
"وَهُوَ الَّذِىۡ يَتَوَفّٰٮكُمۡ بِالَّيۡلِ وَ يَعۡلَمُ مَا جَرَحۡتُمۡ بِالنَّهَارِ ثُمَّ يَـبۡعَثُكُمۡ فِيۡهِ لِيُقۡضٰٓى اَجَلٌ مُّسَمًّى‌ۚ ثُمَّ اِلَيۡهِ مَرۡجِعُكُمۡ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُكُمۡ بِمَا كُنۡتُمۡ تَعۡمَلُوۡنَ".

Essentially it is metempsychosis at it's finest example. The notion of spirits is very dulled down and the concept of miracles is nothing but natural events. Islam is a perfect example of the God of the Gaps. The Arabs knew very little and began inserting god into everything.

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Why not focus on 'misinterpretations' of the quran that are actually harmfull to people? Like the shit on gays, unbelievers etc, stuff that is actually negatively impacting peoples lives? You appear to be rooting for losing the supernatural, while keeping the rules the quran lays out.

I am not rooting for any such thing. I am simply pointing out that Muhammad was very ignorant of how the world is. The Qur'an can burn for all I care because it is just a concept behind it and a lot of it has to do with politics and ethics which are fine with me. This god crap has got to go though. If the Qur'an posits forth a god that is no more different than nature then I am unimpressed. Muhammad made an attempt at something which is fine and dandy but his "was once" good deeds have spawned murderous death cults which I like yourself have no interests in.
I am only trying to point out that Islam is nothing but a failure. What I recommend for all religions to do is to drop the metaphysical baggage and start focusing on something productive which religions can provide.

Community, ritualism(mental masturbation as I like to call it ), ethical systems, and peace. The religions we have now are just outdated. Atheists have Humanism for example. Tis a perfect modern and successful religion.

I do agree with certain things Islam proposes. I am very big on modesty, community(jama'ah as I used to call it), ethics(like alcohol and dietary habits etc) and wife beating(lol). All of these things have a logical basis and are fine, nothing wrong with these things EXCEPT FOR THE LATTER!

[WinterHold]

Hello.
Didn't comment in this forum for a long long time : ) not that I miss long discussions but I have a view to share..

The so called miracle of the Quran is misunderstood by many people ; including a majority of Muslims.
معجزة،the arabic word for "miracle" was not mentioned not even once in the Quran.

There is no such thing as "miracle" in the islamic concept ; I still believe that biblical & heathen values were injected in this religion like a goddamn heroin shot.. right into the brains of many Arabs -including the early, early companions of Mohammed-.
"Sign" or آية، is what is used to describe things like quran, moon, sun ...etc. A sign is something that points to god. Milky way, cherry blossom, a beautiful song coming out of a violin, the taste of apples ^_^ ; everything stands as a sign of god . No miracles.

It's the creation "out of nothing"..That's what matters.
No miracles..only signs.

Some will say "naah, the void ; it's too much..I don't believe"
Others will say "hey ! this actually points to something..god exist ! that cherry blossom cannot be a result of nothingness ! "

I actually think of it this way : why did the universe took these steps to develop ? why would it develop in a way that is capable of providing gravity to hold the whole thing ? why would it have stars and also planets like earth ? why would earth have a sun and a moon ? why would earth develop in such a way to support life ?

Signs. Not miracles.
Just another point of view ^_*