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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 11:07 am
Upon reflection, I'd go so far as to say even suggesting a person might be 'allowed' to change so much in heaven or hell so as to no longer 'be themselves' is blasphemous.
If a duly earned eternal reward or eternal punishment was meted out to the wrong individual, it is equivalent to indicting the entire God given system as flawed or corruptible.
God would not be pleased at such a characterization.
(and I realize pointing out blasphemy here at AF is rather funny)
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 11:17 am
(July 27, 2014 at 11:07 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Upon reflection, I'd go so far as to say even suggesting a person might be 'allowed' to change so much in heaven or hell so as to no longer 'be themselves' is blasphemous.
If a duly earned eternal reward or eternal punishment was meted out to the wrong individual, it is equivalent to indicting the entire God given system as flawed or corruptible.
God would not be pleased at such a characterization.
(and I realize pointing out blasphemy here at AF is rather funny)
![[Image: hA41CECCD.jpg]](https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2405154048/hA41CECCD.jpg)
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 11:41 am
(July 27, 2014 at 11:07 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Upon reflection, I'd go so far as to say even suggesting a person might be 'allowed' to change so much in heaven or hell so as to no longer 'be themselves' is blasphemous.
If a duly earned eternal reward or eternal punishment was meted out to the wrong individual, it is equivalent to indicting the entire God given system as flawed or corruptible.
God would not be pleased at such a characterization.
(and I realize pointing out blasphemy here at AF is rather funny)
Trust me. Yahweh's justice system is already flawed. Punishing people infinitely for finite crimes. Claiming everyone is equally evil, so a serial killer may have a better chance at getting into heaven than a law abiding citizen, purely based on who they pray to. There is no justice. Only blackmail and coersion.
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 12:49 pm
(July 26, 2014 at 12:54 pm)professor Wrote: Hi Esq,
Remember, I said no one gets the dates.
In general, prophecy from the Bible gets understood after it comes to pass.
Then it's not a prophecy. That's just you retrofitting past events into vaguely worded bible passages. Prophecies predict things that will happen in the future, that's the whole point: I'm sure it's very convenient for you that you've established an unfalsifiable system that never requires you to stick your neck out, but if a "prophecy" can only be understood in the past tense, then not only is it completely useless, but we have no way of determining whether it really is prophetic, or just wishful thinking and confirmation bias on the part of the believer. And frankly, given that I know humans exist, I know how powerful mental biases can be, and I know how willing you theists are to twist the facts to fit your pet beliefs, it's far more likely that you're just spinning nothings into portentous woo, than that god is involved at all.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 12:52 pm
(July 27, 2014 at 10:01 am)Stimbo Wrote: The premise of the heaven scenario is more that one's personality is sterilised and made to conform to everyone else's. How do you reach that conclusion Biblically?
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 1:01 pm
(July 27, 2014 at 12:52 pm)alpha male Wrote: (July 27, 2014 at 10:01 am)Stimbo Wrote: The premise of the heaven scenario is more that one's personality is sterilised and made to conform to everyone else's. How do you reach that conclusion Biblically?
Given the character of Yahweh that is established in the book, why would it be anything else?
As for prophesies, what use are they if you can only understand them after they happen? That's why asking for specific details is so important. So we know it's an accurate prediction, instead of just something vague like prophesying that there will be wars, and rumors of wars. Give specifics about these wars, and we'll be impressed. One of the few things it is specific about, the destruction of Tyre, didn't even happen.
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 1:28 pm
(July 27, 2014 at 12:52 pm)alpha male Wrote: How do you reach that conclusion Biblically?
I don't (in fact, why would I need to?) - I reach that conclusion by following the progression of this thread, mainly.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 1:57 pm
(July 27, 2014 at 1:01 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Given the character of Yahweh that is established in the book, why would it be anything else? Jesus says some of the last will be first and first last, and that there are many rooms in his father's house which he goes to prepare...Paul says there are different heavenly rewards for different people...angels are portrayed as having different activities. What do you have to support your position?
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 27, 2014 at 2:03 pm
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2014 at 2:04 pm by professor.)
I gave you guys specifics.
Events that are going to happen.
Then you object because I didn't give a time line.
I gave you a sequence of things that are coming, this is prophecy as denoted in the Bible.
If we are not given a time line, how can we give one to you?
The main reason people are blind to prophecy is spiritual dullness.
I am one of those crazy people who want to know, and ask about where we are and what is coming.
It is part of my make up and destiny.
My 2 cents- O is not mimicking the ministry of Moses.
He is following the steps Jesus took.
Moses was 80 when he began his task of delivering Israel.
O is around 50.
It will NOT be another 30 years to the showdown.
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RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 28, 2014 at 10:40 am
(July 27, 2014 at 2:03 pm)professor Wrote: I gave you guys specifics.
Events that are going to happen.
Then you object because I didn't give a time line.
I gave you a sequence of things that are coming, this is prophecy as denoted in the Bible.
If we are not given a time line, how can we give one to you?
Two things immediately leap to mind: if you don't give a timeline your prophecy is unfalsifiable by (I would wager intentional) design, and therefore veridically worthless. And if you are not given a timeline, how can you be so confident that these prophecies relate to us, now, here within this lifetime, and not to a completely alien civilization ten trillion years in the future after planet Earth has been destroyed by the death of the sun?
You started out giving all these details, and two posts later you're contradicting yourself by saying you have no way of knowing when any of these things are liable to take place.
Quote:The main reason people are blind to prophecy is spiritual dullness.
I am one of those crazy people who want to know, and ask about where we are and what is coming.
It is part of my make up and destiny.
Yes, soldier on, brave truth seeker. 
Quote:My 2 cents- O is not mimicking the ministry of Moses.
He is following the steps Jesus took.
Moses was 80 when he began his task of delivering Israel.
O is around 50.
It will NOT be another 30 years to the showdown.
How would you know? You just got through saying you don't have a timeline. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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