Is Sam Harris becoming a pariah for the anti-religious cause?

[Mudhammam]

Hey ignorant, inhumane, prick, genocide is mass homicide, and includes the targeting of a specific ethnic, which in this case is the Palestinian people. I'm not comparing it to other genocides. Look at the photos, read the reports from those in Gaza. Entire streets demolished. Children being pulled from the rubble. One psychologist alone lost 28 family members. Keep trying to justify that you disturbed, ass-munching, Zionist sympathizer.

Also, while we're considering statistics, the number of children who have been slaughtered is proportionally equivalent to 1,375 Sandy Hooks in three weeks. Going to justify that too, fuck head? Maybe reveal more of your disgusting character and do some more victim blaming?

[Lemonvariable72]

Hey ignorant, inhumane, prick, genocide is mass homicide, and includes the targeting of a specific ethnic, which in this case is the Palestinian people. I'm not comparing it to other genocides. Look at the photos, read the reports from those in Gaza. Entire streets demolished. Children being pulled from the rubble. One psychologist alone lost 28 family members. Keep trying to justify that you disturbed, ass-munching, Zionist sympathizer.

Also, while we're considering statistics, the number of children who have been slaughtered is proportionally equivalent to 1,375 Sandy Hooks in three weeks. Going to justify that too, fuck head? Maybe reveal more of your disgusting character and do some more victim blaming?

Thats what happens when hamas sets up rockets on top of a school

[Mudhammam]

Empty school but nonetheless, it's a non-sequitor because it doesn't justify the indiscriminate bombing of 44% of Gaza and killing of civilians.

Rebels in Syria do the same thing. Not once have I heard anyone use that as justification for the brutality inflicted on Syrians by the Assad regime. Double standard much?

No one has to convince me that Hamas needs to go (despite how dishonest Zionist hacks like Moros try to frame their opposition). I'm simply amazed at the cognitive dissonance on display by those who seem to think dropping bombs on innocent civilians is justified because Hamas has weapons that they're ready to use against what is in many ways resembling another apartheid.

[archangle]

Once again, Sam Harris opens his mouth on politics, and once again I'm left shaking my head. This time he wrote a lengthy blog in defense of the utter brutality that Israel has been exercising on her enemies the last few weeks. You can read it here: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-d...ize-israel I know he speaks for no one but himself but perception is everything, and he has in many people's minds earned a place as one the fiercest and most well-versed proponents for the modern age's shift towards atheism. He's revered by many atheists, including those here, and in multiple respects this is well-deserved; that's also why I fear he is doing a heck of a job misleading the impressionable and creating a caricature of atheists that many, such as myself, find despicable. I have quoted his work before in arguing certain positions, and I can only imagine how his continual display of ignorance on vastly complex topics will be all too easily thrown back in my face.

My two biggest problems with his article:
The defense that Israel could cause a lot more damage, but doesn't, hence her intentions must be noble.
Second, that Hamas is to blame for the devastation Israel has caused for the millions who live in Gaza, when in fact Israel has made those people suffer for decades; Hamas is a predictable reaction. "Give me liberty or give me death" is a human ideal, not an American one. So, I was going to place this in the "Politics" section but I also think it deserves a spot here, as atheism, as a movement, which it can be called in some respects ("New Atheism")--and/or as it is perceived by believers--will be damaged by neo-con crap like this.

Also, Steven Pinker retweeted his link (another American Imperialist). I look forward to Murtaza Hussain's response (which he has promised in the future--and which I will post here).

All that aside, I'm still looking forward to Harris' new book Waking Up, which is coming out this September.

In a world of unicorns and rainbows you would be correct. Of course that is not real. Thus your take is not real and should be place right next to the santa clause solution.

Israel is not "brutalizing" them. They are at war with them. 1/2 measures are/seem brutal to the more emotional person. I am kind of against a full measured solution though. Unless a full measure of peace was in place. Of course that is as fake as your take. Because of muslims. And we atheists can't even be at peace with pastors so how could peace be a solution here.

If we honestly seek the answer to how a parent could send a child to be a bomb we could be closer to total peace. But of course, that would require both sides to be honest. And we, as clearly shown at this cesspool of hate site, and your post, can't have that. We have to work on becoming haters of hate only. When we can do that and not become full of bs, please, someone tell me and this puffed enough dude how to do it.

[Jaysyn]

This conflict may not meet the metrics for genocide, but there are damn sure war crimes being committed by Israel.

“In recent weeks I was on the border of Gaza and getting reports from soldiers in the Gaza Strip who leak information out to me. I am in the process of publication of two big stories in major U.S. newspapers, but there are some things I can share with you right now: Soldiers in two different units inside Gaza leaked information about the murdering of Palestinians by sniper fire in Shuja’iyya neighborhood as punishment for the death of soldiers in their units.

After the shooting on the Israeli armored personnel carriers, which killed seven soldiers of the Golani Brigade, the Israeli army carried out a massacre in Shuja’iyya neighborhood. A day after the massacre, many Palestinians came to search for their relatives and their families in the rubble. In one of the videos uploaded to YouTube, a young Palestinian man Salem Shammaly calls the names of his family and looking for them between the ruins when he is suddenly shot at in his chest and falls down. A few seconds after that, there are two additional shootings from snipers into his body, killing him instantly. Since the video was released, there was no official response from the IDF spokesperson.

Today I can report that the official command that was handed down to the soldiers in Shujaiyya was to capture Palestinian homes as outposts. From these posts, the soldiers drew an imaginary red line, and amongst themselves decided to shoot to death anyone who crosses it. Anyone crossing the line was defined as a threat to their outposts, and was thus deemed a legitimate target. This was the official reasoning inside the units.

Hamas isn't innocent at all, but yes, I hold Israel's professional military to a much higher standard. So would the Hague.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The problem is intractable, because neither side will leave the past behind.

[Mudhammam]

Hamas isn't innocent at all, but yes, I hold Israel's professional military to a much higher standard. So would the Hague.

Exactly. And let's not forget, each one of us has in some small way financially contributed to Israeli killing machines. As someone who is staunchly anti-war in 95% of circumstances, that's almost as infuriating as the fact that 40% of Democrats disagree with Israel's actions, yet 100% of Congress supports them.

[Lemonvariable72]

This conflict may not meet the metrics for genocide, but there are damn sure war crimes being committed by Israel.

“In recent weeks I was on the border of Gaza and getting reports from soldiers in the Gaza Strip who leak information out to me. I am in the process of publication of two big stories in major U.S. newspapers, but there are some things I can share with you right now: Soldiers in two different units inside Gaza leaked information about the murdering of Palestinians by sniper fire in Shuja’iyya neighborhood as punishment for the death of soldiers in their units.

After the shooting on the Israeli armored personnel carriers, which killed seven soldiers of the Golani Brigade, the Israeli army carried out a massacre in Shuja’iyya neighborhood. A day after the massacre, many Palestinians came to search for their relatives and their families in the rubble. In one of the videos uploaded to YouTube, a young Palestinian man Salem Shammaly calls the names of his family and looking for them between the ruins when he is suddenly shot at in his chest and falls down. A few seconds after that, there are two additional shootings from snipers into his body, killing him instantly. Since the video was released, there was no official response from the IDF spokesperson.

Today I can report that the official command that was handed down to the soldiers in Shujaiyya was to capture Palestinian homes as outposts. From these posts, the soldiers drew an imaginary red line, and amongst themselves decided to shoot to death anyone who crosses it. Anyone crossing the line was defined as a threat to their outposts, and was thus deemed a legitimate target. This was the official reasoning inside the units.

Hamas isn't innocent at all, but yes, I hold Israel's professional military to a much higher standard. So would the Hague.

That sounds terrible, but remember the hamas has suicide bombers in civilian clothing.

[Brian37]

Once again, Sam Harris opens his mouth on politics, and once again I'm left shaking my head. This time he wrote a lengthy blog in defense of the utter brutality that Israel has been exercising on her enemies the last few weeks. You can read it here: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-d...ize-israel I know he speaks for no one but himself but perception is everything, and he has in many people's minds earned a place as one the fiercest and most well-versed proponents for the modern age's shift towards atheism. He's revered by many atheists, including those here, and in multiple respects this is well-deserved; that's also why I fear he is doing a heck of a job misleading the impressionable and creating a caricature of atheists that many, such as myself, find despicable. I have quoted his work before in arguing certain positions, and I can only imagine how his continual display of ignorance on vastly complex topics will be all too easily thrown back in my face.

My two biggest problems with his article:
The defense that Israel could cause a lot more damage, but doesn't, hence her intentions must be noble.
Second, that Hamas is to blame for the devastation Israel has caused for the millions who live in Gaza, when in fact Israel has made those people suffer for decades; Hamas is a predictable reaction. "Give me liberty or give me death" is a human ideal, not an American one. So, I was going to place this in the "Politics" section but I also think it deserves a spot here, as atheism, as a movement, which it can be called in some respects ("New Atheism")--and/or as it is perceived by believers--will be damaged by neo-con crap like this.

Also, Steven Pinker retweeted his link (another American Imperialist). I look forward to Murtaza Hussain's response (which he has promised in the future--and which I will post here).

All that aside, I'm still looking forward to Harris' new book Waking Up, which is coming out this September.

Um I am not an either/or "us vs them" on this issue. Both sides are doing what humans do, someone punches you you punch back. I am not going to myself make death a numbers game, or big vs small issue.

Having said that I do not like Harris's seeming blind support of Israel at all. I am shocked at him making their minority status in the world an issue. Why should any religion be free from criticism? I do not see how he can take that position after writing "The End Of Faith" and "Letter To A Christian Nation".

I also think if Ann Frank were alive today she would be horrified at the actions of Israel. My position is that neither side is going anywhere. I am also not for any type of religious nationalism. I am for an Israeli state, just not a Jewish state. I am for a Palestinian state, just not an Islamic state.

Both sides are locked in a death spiral because of a stupid fucking idea that a sky hero gave you land. If Muslims want to claim they were there first, the cannot because Hebrews existed long before. NO that does not justify what Israel is doing today. I would also point out to BOTH that polytheism held that same land long before either. Trace our species DNA back even further and we all came from Africa.

If you think about human violence on a group level and skip the labels what is going on is our evolutionary act of protecting the tribe. The problem is that tribalism is local, but human suffering is universal. If you focus on short terms of history, you miss the bigger evolutionary fact that our species has always been capable of both cruelty and compassion.

Harris has disappointed me on this issue. It is not anti Semitic to criticize a fellow human anymore than it is to criticize any other group. If you are doing something wrong it is wrong. I also criticize Palestine and Islam in general as well.

Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in US. in our evolution and we are not a separate species because of one moment in time.

[Minimalist]

If Hamas had any appreciable military capability the Israelis would be a lot slower to attack them. What is going on there right now is simply murder.

I cannot help but think of the question as old as war itself. "It is okay to kill someone that is trying to kill you?"

Hamas talks about exterminating the jews. Israel is exterminating the Palestinians. Subtle distinction.