Is Sam Harris becoming a pariah for the anti-religious cause?

[Jackie]

There are enough people in both camps who hate the violence and division, those people are the ones who need to be the loudest.

[Mudhammam]

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's hard to imagine how he couldn't see the immorality of our Iraqi invasion a priori. The shifting reas -- er, excuses given (before the war started) for prosecuting it reminded me of my son trying to fib his way out of trouble by throwing shit against the wall to see what stuck.

Sadly enough, dribs of this and drabs of that stuck, and the majority of American people are too stupid to see that we have blood on our hands, by way of our votes. If the only thing Harris can muster against the Iraq invasion is "it didn't work", he's lost a hell of a lot of credibility with me -- never mind his stance on your OP topic.

Forgive my digression.

[Zack]

I don't think Mr. Harris is at risk of becoming a pariah. I will still enjoy his speeches and writing, while disagreeing with the conclusion in that link. He explains his reasoning for not "criticizing" Israel. Meanwhile, several of his paragraphs end with admonishments of Israeli actions. I agree there is plenty of blame to go around. Israel is complicit in the fracturing and marginalization of the more secular parties within the PLO. Appearing to overreact and/or consider disproportionate civilian casualties acceptable when dealing with the various groups that filled the vacuum such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. I also think Israel has a responsibility to the people living in the occupied/disputed territories. Restricting access to water, medicine, electricity, and education only bolsters the ranks of those groups willing to blow up buses and pizza parlors full of children. Again I agree with Mr. Harris, that Israel has every right to protect itself from these criminals. I find fault in his lesser of two evils evaluation. Why take a side at all if you are Sam Harris? I don't want to compare and contrast Islam with Janism, Tibetan Buddhism, and Judaism when I've already come to the conclusion religion is bad. Belief is still the lowest common denominator.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Israel is complicit in the fracturing and marginalization of the more secular parties within the PLO.

I'd be interested in learning more about this view. Can you direct me to some reputable source material?

[Zack]

[Dystopia]

I'm not responding to the Palestine V Israel conflict, but to the original intention of the thread. I think Sam Harris has already become an anti-religious 'pariah', the same way it happened with Hitchens and Dawkins, that's just how things tend to go. The fact he is anti-religion (or an anti-theist for that matter) doesn't influence my evaluation of his contribution to both atheism as a 'worldview' and secularism, which are greatly positive. Of course people like those will always affect citizens' beliefs and offend their hearts, but at the same time they automatically de-convert thousands from religion. You can't please both sides.

[Jackie]

I'm not responding to the Palestine V Israel conflict, but to the original intention of the thread. I think Sam Harris has already become an anti-religious 'pariah', the same way it happened with Hitchens and Dawkins, that's just how things tend to go. The fact he is anti-religion (or an anti-theist for that matter) doesn't influence my evaluation of his contribution to both atheism as a 'worldview' and secularism, which are greatly positive. Of course people like those will always affect citizens' beliefs and offend their hearts, but at the same time they automatically de-convert thousands from religion. You can't please both sides.

What the fuck? I do not think any of them lost their punch at all. Hitchens may be dead but he still lives on and his books are still relevant today. And Dawkins as well.

I do not think Harris or Dawkins are really worried about how the public views them. The still have audiences and will continue to write and will still sell books.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You mean the secular parties?

No, I meant more the role Israel may have played in marginalizing them. But I do appreciate you taking the time to supply the information you did, thank you.

[Dystopia]

I'm not responding to the Palestine V Israel conflict, but to the original intention of the thread. I think Sam Harris has already become an anti-religious 'pariah', the same way it happened with Hitchens and Dawkins, that's just how things tend to go. The fact he is anti-religion (or an anti-theist for that matter) doesn't influence my evaluation of his contribution to both atheism as a 'worldview' and secularism, which are greatly positive. Of course people like those will always affect citizens' beliefs and offend their hearts, but at the same time they automatically de-convert thousands from religion. You can't please both sides.

What the fuck? I do not think any of them lost their punch at all. Hitchens may be dead but he still lives on and his books are still relevant today. And Dawkins as well.

I do not think Harris or Dawkins are really worried about how the public views them. The still have audiences and will continue to write and will still sell books.

All of them have people who hate them and people who love them. I might be confusing the meaning of the word pariah here, because I didn't intend to say they lost their guts and punch...

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I'm not responding to the Palestine V Israel conflict, but to the original intention of the thread. I think Sam Harris has already become an anti-religious 'pariah', the same way it happened with Hitchens and Dawkins, that's just how things tend to go. The fact he is anti-religion (or an anti-theist for that matter) doesn't influence my evaluation of his contribution to both atheism as a 'worldview' and secularism, which are greatly positive. Of course people like those will always affect citizens' beliefs and offend their hearts, but at the same time they automatically de-convert thousands from religion. You can't please both sides.

What the fuck? I do not think any of them lost their punch at all. Hitchens may be dead but he still lives on and his books are still relevant today. And Dawkins as well.

I do not think Harris or Dawkins are really worried about how the public views them. The still have audiences and will continue to write and will still sell books.

All of them have people who hate them and people who love them. I might be confusing the meaning of the word pariah here, because I didn't intend to say they lost their guts and punch...