Why knocking is so important.

[LostLocke]

http://atheistforums.org/thread-27948-po...#pid736944

Oh wow, I never knew this!

Now my plans for world domination can begin! Muahahaha

[Losty]

https://atheistforums.org/thread-27948-p...#pid736947


It works on my phone too

[pocaracas]

Damn you people!!! Listening in on other people's conversations!!!
I shall cast you all to hell, when I rule this forum!!

[Ravenshire]

So Drich, no comment on your apparent claim that your just and loving gawd intentionally set me on a path guaranteed to (according to your book of bullshit) send me straight to hell with no hope of redemption?!? C'mon, there must be some bullshit apologetic you can dig up/pull out of your ass that would explain why, during the a/s/k process, your gawd decided to set me on a path not only to atheism, but to blaspheming the holey Casper, repeatedly.

Here, I'll even do it again, just so you'll know for certain that I have indeed committed (according to your buy-bull) the most heinous and the single unforgivable sin. The holy ghost/holy spirit does not exist. If it did, it would be no better than a pile of syphilis infected monkey shit and should be hunted down and exterminated by the Ghost Busters.

There. Was that "speaking irreverently" enough toward the holey invisible fucktard?

[Drich]

That's vague and full of metaphors. It's precisely what I didn't ask for.

Which specific parts do I read?

It's not a specific part. We arelooking to build a whole picture of God when we are reading. So that when He shows up we will be able to recognise Him. I would start at matthew and go through revelation. If you are looking to understand the OT God then start at genesis and read through.

Which specific questions do I ask?

Like with here, any questions that come to mind.

To whom, specifically, do I ask them?

People generally goto Church or places like this and ask these questions, but ask anyone who answers from the bible.

What is the response I'm supposed to look for?

One that you can look up yourself and verify in scripture.

How can I confirm that the response is authentic?

If you seek to worship the God of the Bible then the bible becomes your sole source.

What, specifically, do I do to be absolutely certain that I'm actually hearing the Christian god and not some other god, or my own imagination?

Again, turn to the bible. Anything you hear that can be confirmed with in it's pages if of God. That is WHY it is So Despertatly Important to know what the bible says. God is not the only one giving out revelation.

How can I know with absolute certainty that the answer isn't just confirming a bias?

Becaue MOST of the answers you will find that scripture will confirm will be counterintuitive.

My views on gay people, Hell, Forgiveness, Salvation, Church, God in general, why we are here, where we are going was all wrong. Just about everying I thought I knew was wrong. so how can one confirm a bias he does not already have?

And why must I have any faith at all to get an answer?

We already have that same mustard seeds worth of faith in everything we do. Look at what you believe in the various scientific theories,(not even of orgins) how do you know them to be accurate? How do you know global warming is cause by green house gasses, how do you know that_______ is true. It all boils down to faith in what is provided as evidence, and that the guys smarter than you who come up with this stuff are indeed correct.

Why should my complete skepticism stop him from giving me an answer?

Your allowed to be skeptical, you must simply be humble. God is not your grandfather bugging for a reason to give you candy. Again think world leader (but on a much grander scale) and how you must approach and follow protocol.

I want the truth. I want to know it's the truth, and I want to know it's the truth in spite of whatever faith I may or may not have. With even a mustard seed of faith, I'm putting mud in the water and I simply can't trust any results I get.

That aside, you can't simply choose to have faith in something.

All one needs is faith enough to ask seek and knock. Again That is why Christ likened this amount of faith to that of a mustard seed. As it was the tiniest of seeds that yielded a massive plant.

It's not a switch you can flip. I know you think we lack faith because we want to not believe in your god, but it's really because we can't believe in him without an objective reason for that belief to exist.

I came to an understanding some years back that we believe in what we want. Some want and seek the truth, other do so long as it does not take them too far from where they want to be.

Again if you seek the truth and do not care where it leads you and are willing to follow the truth no matter the cost, you will find it. God will be standing there or rather your eyes will have been opened in the process of life and knocking to the fact that God has been there all this time.

Those of us who call ourselves agnostic atheists do so because we have a mustard seed of 'faith' in the notion that we're not completely right. If that's not enough, then this is a completely buggered process from start to finish.

We all have a mustard seed's worth of faith. We just plant it in different fields. If you or anyone else is ready to follow the truth where ever it may lead you then plant that seed where Christ told us to plant it, and you will be able to move mountains of doubt with what comes up.

I am not a blind faith type of person. I have seen and been apart (and currently am apart) of many many unexplainable and wonderous things. I know that I am not anything special, Im not perfect, and I know there are a great number of people who would not have made as many mistakes as I have. I just did as instructed and held on for the ride to the best of my ablity.

Now (20+ years later) there is nothing that can be said or done to shake me from what I know to be true. Why? Because after 20 years of knocking and 20 years of getting what i have been knocking for there is no doubt left.

Sorry for the late reply I thought I had answered this one already.

---

Define "offer you."

For fuck's sake. It's English Drich, not Swahili.

So is it then acceptable to have a general invitation in the bible?

What about an invitation extended through another person?

Because in english these are all acceptiable forms of one person or group inviting another.

---

Sorry Drich, but all your hand-waving rationalising boils down to "I'll see it when I believe it". You have no outside evidence other than what you already want to be true. You're not comparing your book to the evidence, you're comparing the evidence to your book. And when the book says the evidence is wrong, instead of questioning the validity of the book you're dismissing the evidence. You're like a tourist in Tokyo, using a map of the New York subway system and declaring the city to be wrong.

I dont have any evidence outside of what God has provided to me. But, i can show you how to get God to provide you with exactly what you need.

---

How do you know your atheism is not apart of the answer to your prayer?

Actually, I'm certain it's apart from prayer.

Seriously though, you're gonna go with this...

"Young GalacticBusDriver there is actively seeking me out. So, I'm going to set him on the path to committing the one sin I have deemed unforgivable. And he shall commit that sin over and over again..."

Really? That's where you want to go? To a "just, loving gawd" that wants one of it's creations condemned to hell forever?!?

That's quite some gawd you believe in Drich.

Ah, no. Read the OP again.

I am saying that your atheism is apart of your prayer for proof. In that the version of God you initially had was flawed, or critically in error. So God sent the rains/Trials of life to wash away your faith, Just as He said would happen in the parable of the wise and foolish builders.

24 “Whoever hears these teachings of mine and obeys them is like a wise man who built his house on rock. 25 It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. But it did not fall because it was built on rock.

26 “Whoever hears these teachings of mine and does not obey them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 It rained hard, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house. And it fell with a loud crash.”

This means if you know who God is the trials that bring about 'proof' will only strengthen your understanding of who God is. If you have constructed and worshiped a flawed version of God your faith will fall out around you leaving you with the oppertunity to rebuild, on the rock or rather an accurate picture of Jesus.

When we pray for proof God does not send an angel to sprinkle proof dust on us while we sleep nor does He support a corrupt theology with miracles. No He sends trials to proof what we believe or to point us in the right direction, so that through our struggles our beliefs get cemented into our foundations/core beliefs.

---

Ah, no.

I dont get it.. are you a japaneese maid who is awestruck by what I said?

---

uh, don't look now but I have like 3 or 4 times. starting with fat and faithless and again and again to everyone else who has brought this up. Do you not read any other posts except your own?

I'm going to ask you this:
What is your standard of evidence? What do you need in order to be convinced in the truth of something?

post 357

---

I suspect drippy wants to be a preacher, but is blissfully unaware the most preachers down the ages were far smarter than he, and created the cult of Jesus to lead idiots like him by the nose and fleece them like the sheep they were told to be.

It takes more than hollow arrogance and paper thin condescension to be a real successful preacher, drippy, it takes an awareness that you are talking bullshit to people dumber than you. There are no people dumber than you, drippy, it's a nonstarter.

This is why i don't want to be a preacher.. (I don't like people who need to be handeled with care, or their problems, or their demands that has one hold to the ideals of formal Christianity.) I am an evangelist who seeks out those who have fallen through the cracks that preachers, and mainstream Christianity tend to over look. One who speaks to real people with real problem, who does not get hung up on the perservation of the 'christian mold.'

For some that may make them believe i am arrogant and condesending. For them they are right. For others I am simply straight forward and unappologetic for pushing a broken faith aside, in light of how to establish and maintain a proper system of belief..

---

You can ask your dead cat or a random tree in the forest to show you a sign, and by golly something is bound to happen in your life that you can credit the dead cat or random tree with. The whole ask and you shall receive is absolutely bogus.

I did a love spell when I was 15 and got a girlfriend that month. Praise the goddess? She did it! I did another love spell when I was 16 and got nothing. She just wasn't listening that time I guess.

what you people dont seem to get when tring to apply that strawman fallacy to what i have been talking about for 40+ pages is that this is not a one time thing. What God offers is not unlimited wish granting. It's about making the changes to your theology so you can activly see and interact with God on a day to day basis. Why? Because if you are faithful to the process He has outlined He will show you ...Something... What that something is will vary from person to person. Most often times it will be just enough to know that what you experienced was not of you nor something you have maniuplated (No wishes granted) It will be just a peek or hint that God could exist. If you are faithful to what you experienced and follow up by reading and asking question, you will experience more and more and more till what was once a mustard seed's worth of faith will have blossomed into a unwavering knoweledge that God is who He says He is. The key to all of this? Persistance/knocking.

---

If you can not find your answer directly addressed in the multi is I referenced then we are at an impasse, and can not move forward. Because I know what I wrote, and. I know you say you can't see it. So for me to spend a ton of time trying to make the blind see something is beyond the gifts I have been given. Sorry pro carrots, their is nothing more I can do for you.

I'm going to tell you a secret about this forum. Listen carefully, this is a very old secret, very well kept. Only a few mods are aware of it... and a few users.
The admins make it sound like wooo and magic, but I can see through the smoke and mirrors and I'll tell you this secret straight as it is.
- On each post, on the top right part there is a number, something like "Post: #123". If you hover your mouse cursor over this number, but only the number part, the normal arrowhead cursor becomes a hand pointing a finger (if you use the standard mouse icons). This hand means that the number is a link. A link to where, you may ask... That is the secret. It is a link to that very post. That's why it doesn't look like it does anything when you click it.... you're already there!
Now that you know this secret, you can go back to where you explained how you rationally dismiss a natural explanation for your experiences in favor of your favorite holy book's explanation. Once there, you can right-click (this works on most browsers) on that link hidden in the number and select the "copy link location" or whatever text performs this action.
Then, simply paste that link on the reply field and click "Post Reply". You don't even need to wrap it in url tags (although the mods may disagree with me), since I use a linkify add-on on Firefox which converts any textual link into a fully qualified link.

Alright sport lets start over fresh. What do you want to know?

---

So Drich, no comment on your apparent claim that your just and loving gawd intentionally set me on a path guaranteed to (according to your book of bullshit) send me straight to hell with no hope of redemption?!? C'mon, there must be some bullshit apologetic you can dig up/pull out of your ass that would explain why, during the a/s/k process, your gawd decided to set me on a path not only to atheism, but to blaspheming the holey Casper, repeatedly.

Here, I'll even do it again, just so you'll know for certain that I have indeed committed (according to your buy-bull) the most heinous and the single unforgivable sin. The holy ghost/holy spirit does not exist. If it did, it would be no better than a pile of syphilis infected monkey shit and should be hunted down and exterminated by the Ghost Busters.

There. Was that "speaking irreverently" enough toward the holey invisible fucktard?

You know I am here on my free time. Sometimes I have more free time than others. be patient I will eventually get to everyone.

[Ravenshire]

Drich, you are so full of shit. As hard as you spin I'm surprised you can still type.

[pocaracas]

---

I'm going to tell you a secret about this forum. Listen carefully, this is a very old secret, very well kept. Only a few mods are aware of it... and a few users.
The admins make it sound like wooo and magic, but I can see through the smoke and mirrors and I'll tell you this secret straight as it is.
- On each post, on the top right part there is a number, something like "Post: #123". If you hover your mouse cursor over this number, but only the number part, the normal arrowhead cursor becomes a hand pointing a finger (if you use the standard mouse icons). This hand means that the number is a link. A link to where, you may ask... That is the secret. It is a link to that very post. That's why it doesn't look like it does anything when you click it.... you're already there!
Now that you know this secret, you can go back to where you explained how you rationally dismiss a natural explanation for your experiences in favor of your favorite holy book's explanation. Once there, you can right-click (this works on most browsers) on that link hidden in the number and select the "copy link location" or whatever text performs this action.
Then, simply paste that link on the reply field and click "Post Reply". You don't even need to wrap it in url tags (although the mods may disagree with me), since I use a linkify add-on on Firefox which converts any textual link into a fully qualified link.

---

Alright sport lets start over fresh. What do you want to know?

Alright, game on!

Here's an excerpt from what I wrote earlier (click on the little green arrow next to my username on the quote below to go to the full post):

Tell me, can you honestly say you've considered the possibility that a lot of the extraordinary phenomena you think happened to you may have been a product of your own mind, your own wishful thinking, your own imagination, your own hallucination, your own projection?

[ShaMan]

Some people (like most atheists here) have no real need of such psychological crutches. We're already fine with our lives, no belief in any god required, ever.

(bold added)
Some people do have such a need - they literally cannot function apart from their dysfunction.

[Cato]

So is it then acceptable to have a general invitation in the bible?

What about an invitation extended through another person?

Because in english these are all acceptiable forms of one person or group inviting another.

So, your answer to my assertion that God hasn't offered anything is to agree with me and claim that others have made offers on God's behalf?

[pocaracas]

Some people (like most atheists here) have no real need of such psychological crutches. We're already fine with our lives, no belief in any god required, ever.

(bold added)
Some people do have such a need - they literally cannot function apart from their dysfunction.

Yes, but for those who don't need and are fully aware that those devices are crutches it is be very unlikely that they may ever get persuaded into adopting said crutches for themselves.
And this kind of people is very well represented in the atheists of this forum.
So, why attempt to provide these crutches in this setting?