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Trying to save people
#21
RE: Trying to save people
(August 18, 2014 at 5:13 am)robvalue Wrote:


If atheists are trying to “save” theists, then why spend so much time on a forum filled with other atheists? Isn’t that preaching to the choir so to speak? I think atheists tend to like being around other people who think just like they do. Just my thoughts.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Surely you must admit that asserting that those without salvation suffer from these dilemmas and those who are "saved" do not is at least condescending?

The OP asserts that atheists are rational and theists are irrational and somehow hampering humanity; is that also condescending?
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#22
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Goosebump Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Salvation means much more than a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. It also involves delivery from the nihilism of ontological naturalism, the idolatry of scientism, the bondage of sin, and ignorance of your true Self.
Surely you must admit that asserting that those without salvation suffer from these dilemmas and those who are "saved" do not is at least condescending?
I am merely offering up a list of errors to which atheists are prone. Some or none of these may apply to any particular person. If the shoe fits, wear it.
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#23
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:11 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I am merely offering up a list of errors to which atheists are prone. Some or none of these may apply to any particular person. If the shoe fits, wear it.

My apologies as I have no depth of understanding as to what errors one group of people may or not be susceptible to. I can assume that you do.

But be that as it may would you not consider a statement like the following to be condescending?

Most religious people suffer from self delusion, self aggrandizement, superiority complex, egomaniac tendencies and a lack of empathy that they can only shed by accepting not to believe those religious teachings.

I don't know if any of that is true or not. But it sounded condescending when I wrote it. Is it?
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#24
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Most religious people suffer from self delusion, self aggrandizement, superiority complex, egomaniac tendencies and a lack of empathy that they can only shed by accepting not to believe those religious teachings.
I think it is true. I also think Chad's comment is true. Condescending, yes. But also true.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#25
RE: Trying to save people
Perhaps putting aside the condensation on both sides would foster better discussion.
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#26
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Perhaps putting aside the condensation on both sides would foster better discussion.

But then we'd be all wet. Sad
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#27
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Tonus Wrote: But then we'd be all wet. Sad

You beat me to it! Well played sir.
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#28
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Perhaps putting aside the condensation on both sides would foster better discussion.

But then we'd be all wet. Sad

I'm very sorry, I am a poor speller and poorer proof reader. I often lack attention to detail. Thank you for pointing out my error, I assume I selected the wrong spell check word, and using light humor to make it enjoyable for everyone.

I meant to use the word condescension I suppose I should stick with smaller words in the future to avoid such embarrassment.
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#29
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:51 pm)Goosebump Wrote: I'm very sorry, I am a poor speller and poorer proof reader. I often lack attention to detail. Thank you for pointing out my error, I assume I selected the wrong spell check word, and using light humor to make it enjoyable for everyone.

I meant to use the word condescension I suppose I should stick with smaller words in the future to avoid such embarrassment.

We’re just razzing the new guy a little; it’s good to see you can be light-hearted.
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#30
RE: Trying to save people
(August 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(August 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Most religious people suffer from self delusion, self aggrandizement, superiority complex, egomaniac tendencies and a lack of empathy that they can only shed by accepting not to believe those religious teachings.
I think it is true. I also think Chad's comment is true. Condescending, yes. But also true.
Don't forget that I am a self-identified "Pompous Ass." Nevertheless, my intention was to show that the Christian concept of salvation is multi-faceted and deserves more than the one sentence summary given in the OP. I should also note that Evangelicals focus way too much on the avoidance of eternal damnation, often to the exclusion of these other important aspects of salvation: delivery, victory, etc.
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