Moderates rally against IS

[Anomalocaris]

'Moderates?' They're the ones who only clap politely when they hear of some atrocity committed in the name of their faith, right?

Moderates are those who hand the knife with an air of distaste to someone else to behead you.

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How many observant Catholics funded the molesting priests? More than that. Which is why religious charity isn't really much of a good thing

How many Catholics stayed catholics when the infallible pope shielded pedaphile priests?

These Catholics in effect held the priests belt, undoubtedly with an air of distaste, while the priest molested boys.

[Hunafae!i]

... they could put more weight into this by using verses from the Qur'an to show that ISIS is not following its teachings (which will be impossible if ISIS is actually following said teachings).

I tend to agree. It's impossible to construct a moderate interpretation of Islam. There's way too much violence in Mohammed's life. As Sam Harris says:

Osama bin Laden ... is giving a truly straightforward version of Islam, and you really have to be an acrobat to figure out how he is distorting the faith.

But actually it's a moot point. Even if the moderate narrative existed, the head-chopping interpretation would also still exist. Thus the Islamic holy books would remain a clear and present danger to us.

So are you saying its not islamic fundamentalism thats the problem, that its Islam itself?

[Thumpalumpacus]

So, when they don't protest, they get accused of supporting the extremists, but when they do protest, it gets waved away as meaningless?

Am I reading y'all correctly?

[mralstoner]

So are you saying its not islamic fundamentalism thats the problem, that its Islam itself?

As Sam Harris says eloquently in this video, fundamentalism (i.e. reverting to orthodox theological doctrines) is not a problem if your core beliefs are truly non-violent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE

"Religion" is a nearly useless term. It's a term like "sports". Now there are sports like Badminton and sports like Thai Boxing, and they have almost nothing in common apart from breathing. There are sports that are just synonymous with the risk of physical injury or even death ... There is, I'm happy to say, a religion of peace in this world, but it's not Islam. To call Islam a religion of peace, as we hear ceaselessly reiterated, is completely delusional. Now Jainism actually is a religion of peace. The core principle of Jainism is non-violence. Gandhi got his non-violence from the Jains. The crazier you get as a Jain, the less we have to worry about you. Jain extremists are paralysed by their pacifism. Jain extremists can't take their eyes off the ground when they walk lest they step on an ant... Needless to say they are vegetarian. So the problem is not religious extremism, because extremism is not a problem if your core beliefs are truly non-violent. The problem isn't fundamentalism. We often hear this said; these are euphemisms... The only problem with Islamic fundamentalism are the fundamentals of Islam... Osama bin Laden is giving a truly straightforward version of Islam, and you really have to be an acrobat to figure out how he is distorting the faith.

[CapnAwesome]

Islam is a religion that was founded in violence by a violent warlord. It's no wonder that it's at the state it is today.

[mralstoner]

So, when they don't protest, they get accused of supporting the extremists, but when they do protest, it gets waved away as meaningless? Am I reading y'all correctly?

Okay, it's not TOTALLY meaningless. It may have some short-term benefit at making terrorists think twice. But it's only going to have a minor effect, at the margins. It doesn't create a counter-narrative, and hence it doesn't solve the core problem.

[The Grand Nudger]

They hardly thought the once....lol, twice is probably out of the question.

What do you think an extremist has to say about those who criticize their actions from within the faith? Could it be that they are "not true" whatevers? Traitors.......part of the problem. They become yet more proof that the western world is evil, because you just know, somehow, that those muslims are "westernized".

Please remember how fucking -devoted- not only to their faith, but to a specific interpretation of it such a person is. There is nothing else, this is the only way for them to perceive the world. We can talk shit all day long...but they are fully committed - we can at least give them that much.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

'Moderates?' They're the ones who only clap politely when they hear of some atrocity committed in the name of their faith, right?

That's a good one. Consider some of the groups and try to name the most moderate one:

1. ISIS (IS) or (ISIL)
2. Taliban
3. Hamas
4. Hezbollah
5. Iranian mullahs
6. Saudi religious police
7. Al-Shabaab
8. Al-Qaeda
9. Mujahideen Shura Council (Iraq)
10. Abu Sayyaf
11. Hizb ut-Tahrir
12. Egyptian Islamic Jihad
13. Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters
14. Jundallah
15. Houthis
16. Muslim Brotherhood
17. Palestinian Islamic Jihad
18. Boko Haram
19. Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
20 Abu Nidal Organization

[Hunafae!i]

We can talk shit all day long...but they are fully committed - we can at least give them that much.

This I fear to be the truth of it. I acknowledge that a salafi appears to adhere to principles, and I would perhaps venture that all who do not, are apostates. Its a an interesting observation, that a so called 'moderate' is not in fact a muslim. It would have to argued however, that its up the individual to define his/her faith, its the hole in this train of thought.

[Zack]

'Moderates?' They're the ones who only clap politely when they hear of some atrocity committed in the name of their faith, right?

That's a good one. Consider some of the groups and try to name the most moderate one:

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1. ISIS (IS) or (ISIL)
2. Taliban
3. Hamas
4. Hezbollah
5. Iranian mullahs
6. Saudi religious police
7. Al-Shabaab
8. Al-Qaeda
9. Mujahideen Shura Council (Iraq)
10. Abu Sayyaf
11. Hizb ut-Tahrir
12. Egyptian Islamic Jihad
13. Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters
14. Jundallah
15. Houthis
16. Muslim Brotherhood
17. Palestinian Islamic Jihad
18. Boko Haram
19. Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
20 Abu Nidal Organization

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Not counting #4 because Iranian mullahs is too broad a term; #16 is easily the most moderate organization on your list. The Muslim Brotherhood has been willing to negotiate and use the political process to achieve their goals. Several of the other groups are offshoots, founded or lead by it's disaffected members. It's hard to imagine they have lasted these past 86 years without some moderation.