Christians: Please explain the Exodus

[The Grand Nudger]

My arguement is that the egyptians destroyed their historical records to cover up an unfavoriable point in their history by completely dissassembling a prymid, and destroying the artifacts inside.

Because they are known to do this to such an extreme (who knows how many generations this process took) thier historical records are less than reliable. Therefore to point to their self proclaimed history as proof of anything other than the victors write history is foolishness.

They are also known to describe their failures, and they are also known to be horrible at wiping their records. Your "argument" is garbage. It's not an argument at all...it's an excuse.

If you wish to invoke damnatio memoriae...you're going to have to explain why I shouldn't regard the exodus narrative as the same.....probably not your intention - but it's the route you chose...so..chop chop.

[Drich]

I don't think the person making this argument realizes that it's not really helping him, either. I mean, yeah, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence in and of itself, but we have to remember what's being discussed: a civilization wandering through the wilderness for forty years being fed daily by magic sky-food. Apart from the Bible's claims, there's no evidence for this, either.

It seems more reasonable to just assume it didn't happen until we find some other reason to believe it.

Archeaologists are more than capable of finding old campsites, if they're there to be found. Especially if more than a million people are traipsing around. It's nonsense to propose we wouldn't be able to find evidence of that. If we DID find evidence of that tomorrow, they'd change their tune in a heartbeat.

Show me a evidence of any 3400 year old camp site found in the open desert. Now just because we can not find evidences of a 3400 year old camp site in a desert, does it mean that people back then did not sleep outside of established structures? Or does it mean the organic material in the desert is consumed by sand blasting, heat and sun?

Truthfully, what would last from a campsite after 3400 years, in aplace that consumes whole cities made from stone with out a trace?

[The Grand Nudger]

You don't realize that a desert is one of the -best- places to find artifacts, one of the most friendly environments for preservation (and over far longer spans than a measely 3k years). That deserts don't actually swallow cities "without a trace". Do you?

[Aractus]

Show me a evidence of any 3400 year old camp site found in the open desert. Now just because we can not find evidences of a 3400 year old camp site in a desert, does it mean that people back then did not sleep outside of established structures? Or does it mean the organic material in the desert is consumed by sand blasting, heat and sun?

Truthfully, what would last from a campsite after 3400 years, in aplace that consumes whole cities made from stone with out a trace?

Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman say so (see op). Note that they are world renowned archaeologists and that Finkelstein was awarded the Dan David Prize in 2005.

[Drich]

They are also known to describe their failures,

examples?

and they are also known to be horrible at wiping their records. Your "argument" is garbage. It's not an argument at all...it's an excuse.

This seems to be inconsistant with the lost prymid.

If you wish to invoke damnatio memoriae...you're going to have to explain why I shouldn't regard the exodus narrative as the same

Maybe look up the term before using it in an incorrect way. that way you don't get force fed crow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

Your not in a position to erase or strike the 'exodus narritive' from history. do as you will, it will remain.[/quote]

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Show me a evidence of any 3400 year old camp site found in the open desert. Now just because we can not find evidences of a 3400 year old camp site in a desert, does it mean that people back then did not sleep outside of established structures? Or does it mean the organic material in the desert is consumed by sand blasting, heat and sun?

Truthfully, what would last from a campsite after 3400 years, in aplace that consumes whole cities made from stone with out a trace?

Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman say so (see op). Note that they are world renowned archaeologists and that Finkelstein was awarded the Dan David Prize in 2005.

so?

It does not matter who you think you are or what you think your an expert at. bottom line, there is a vast region they are claiming absolute knoweledge of over a 4000 year period. To say some definatly did or did not happen without any evidence for or against puts one in a realm of faith. (eitherway.) for me that is what my religion is about. for you and your two super stars, this is sacrilege.

[Aractus]

Drich your argument is made up. You didn't get it from a valid archaeologist. For instance, I can go to https://israelfinkelstein.wordpress.com/ and look up plenty of Israel Finkelstein's peer-review published stuff. You are making an argument that you as a layman thinks is valid - if it's valid show us archaeologists who agree with your theory?

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so?

It does not matter who you think you are or what you think your an expert at. bottom line, there is a vast region they are claiming absolute knoweledge of over a 4000 year period. To say some definatly did or did not happen without any evidence for or against puts one in a realm of faith. (eitherway.) for me that is what my religion is about. for you and your two super stars, this is sacrilege.

Then go and read some peer review papers and academic books and come back with your own experts.

They aren't making their arguments with no evidence, they have an amount of clear evidence that contradicts the biblical accounts. For instance, we know that the ancient Jews fleeing Egypt never went to the actual Mt. Sinai - even evangelical scholars acknowledge this!

[The Grand Nudger]

examples?

The depressing record of predation by and inability to combat "the sea peoples" comes to mind. This was a group that actually -did- fuck the the egyptians up, that really did "inconvenience" them (unlike your mythical slave horde)

This seems to be inconsistant with the lost prymid.

This has already been explained to you. You have knowledge of the pyramid...and if you..Drich, of all people, have knowledge of something...it clearly wasn't hidden very well.

Maybe look up the term before using it in an incorrect way. that way you don't get force fed crow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

Your not in a position to erase or strike the 'exodus narritive' from history. do as you will, it will remain.

Yep, as a way to strike the people they actually slaughtered from history. Clearly embarrassed by their pagan roots and practices - and not willing to own up to the destruction of their brethren and their temples - envious of the egyptians structures and achievements - they sought to strike their own past from memory, replacing it with an altogether grander tale of an underdog group who built magnificent pyramids, then wandered the desert surviving dragon attacks and rolling over the locals before establishing their magic city - hence exodus. To bad for them..they weren't any better at it than the egyptians.

[vorlon13]

Also noted elsewhere, with average life span less than 40 years, the wandering in the desert implies damn few of the original crew of the exodus actually reached the promised land. Virtually all of them died enroute.

Hell, even Moses didn't make it.

What did they do with all the bodies ??

(Moses excepted, he flitted away)

[Crossless2.0]

Drich, the Exodus story is just the tip of the iceberg. Things don't get much better for you when archaeologists weigh in on the Joshua narrative. The two "super stars" you so snidely dismiss have forgotten more about this subject than you've ever learned. I don't suppose you'd actually stoop to reading the book in question, would you? You know -- actually learn what experts in the relevant field have to say? Perhaps take your well honed knocking skills and use them at the library?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

It's a shame because it's an excellent and informative book. I've recommended it to several friends and acquaintances.

[Minimalist]

If Jehovah is real he is perfectly capable of making mana and leaving no trace.

If yhwh had been real he could have sent roast beef and yorkshire pudding instead of that manna shit.