Do you believe in good and evil?

[Mudhammam]

The Hebrews were practically saintly compared to the people who lived around them, who engaged in human sacrifices, wild sex orgies, rampant homosexuality and pedophilia, and all the other evils that caused God to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah.

What's your evidence of this? Can I take a guess? Hebrew sources? (Which by the way, contain all of the *terrible* practices you mentioned--homosexuality?! Good Gawd!--apparently so rampant among the Hebrews, in fact, that their crazy leaders quoted their warrior god as sanctioning capital punishment for anyone who continued to commit them, and of course, then blamed the fall of their temple and subsequent captivity on the "wickedness" of the people).

I know that is not an explanation that will satisfy atheists, who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

Atheists! Those flag-waving patriots.

After all, we are so far superior to the Hebrews, since all we do is send drones to kill people at long range so we don't have to do the killing up close and personal, getting our hands dirty.

Strange, because I do not support massacring human beings via either a President using drones or a religious nut with a sword citing the authority of an Iron Age god... and have never shied from that fact. I take it... you do support those, however?

Therefore, we have the right to sit in judgment over the Hebrews, and condemn them, even though they were fighting the same kind of craziness we are currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yeah, actually, I do retain my right to criticize senseless violence committed in the name of a "war on terrorism" or a "judgement on pagans," thank you very much. I suppose your mind is kind of vacant when it comes to the whole moral conviction thing, huh?

[RobbyPants]

...who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

The USA is a society in decline suffering from rampant fornication, materialism, celebrity idolization, and Earth worship. We are hardly a model civilization.

I didn't know anyone suffered from fornication. I thought the whole point of it was sort of the opposite...

Also, what is "Earth worship"? Are you talking about actual Wiccans or just environmentalism?

[fr0d0]

I've been thinking about this lately. The main reason I became an atheist is because I saw the disgusting inhumanity in the Bible. I thought the actions of Yahweh and the Hebrews to be barbaric, cruel, and all-around evil. But, I've thinking to myself recently, is that because of something basically built into me,(empathy) or is it because we don't (or at least should) see the kind of behavior as portrayed in the Bible as cruel and brutish due to our norms of morality today? After all, there have been plenty of societies throughout human history that viewed behavior that we see to be cruel as perfectly acceptable. So what I'm asking is, do you believe the concepts of good and evil to be universal truths, or just ideas that can vary from culture to culture or society to society?

I think you see it that way because you have no way of understanding it. Culturally your bound by an imperfect system and judge everything else from that perspective. So you look at the bible, for example, and see hurt as bad. Justice and fairness are superseded by an egotistical, yet not intentionally so, viewpoint.

[Mister Agenda]

...who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

The USA is a society in decline suffering from rampant fornication, materialism, celebrity idolization, and Earth worship. We are hardly a model civilization.

Yet we're also 'suffering' from a declining violent crime rate, an actual evil that is widely agreed upon to be evil by both side, which we can measure.

It's not our fault that we look good compared to barbaric ancient civilizations, and it's not their fault they were barbaric. We discover better ways of living together and cooperating slowly, over centuries. It's only adding God to the picture that makes one wonder why the Hebrews practiced slavery and genocide.

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I don't really get what you mean by "Earth worship", either.

Environmentalism, maybe?

[FatAndFaithless]

Environmentalism, the stamp of the devil!

[Chad32]

Frodo, this imperfect perspective is all we have, so of course we use it. We can't use anything else. It's the same imperfect perspective that you use to try to convince us that Yahweh is good.

[Minimalist]

Pol Pot was educated in a catholic school. No wonder he turned out bad.

[Violet]

Of course I believe in good and evil... but I think they have far more in common than do most. These things apply only in the approach (similar to the intent, but it's about where you're standing). Which means, that for the general understanding of "good and evil people" or "good and evil actions"... I do not register their application in any manner at all.

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Pol Pot was educated in a catholic school. No wonder he turned out bad.

Plenty of catholic-educated people end up being fine people.

[TreeSapNest]

The main reason I became an atheist is because I saw the disgusting inhumanity in the Bible. I thought the actions of Yahweh and the Hebrews to be barbaric, cruel, and all-around evil.

When I think of good and evil I think of benevolence or malice; the desire to be kind and helpful or the desire to be mean and harmful. You know, good witches and evil witches? It isn't God being an evil witch, rather it's the people having brought it upon themselves - forcing the hand of the good witch. Like it or not, he can and does make those judgements because he has the wisdom and abilitiy to do so. A wisdom and ability far beyond your ability to even fathom. Are you a Christian again now? :-)

So what I'm asking is, do you believe the concepts of good and evil to be universal truths, or just ideas that can vary from culture to culture or society to society?

Malciousness and benevolence are universal. What is for our own good isn't always so easy.

[*Deidre*]

After today, yes...I believe in evil.