Why I am so passionate about speaking out against feminism.

[Zack]

I don't know what the libel laws are in the UK, but I would think you have a case if she is publicly calling you an abuser. That kind of slander can have very real consequences.

[FatAndFaithless]

Alpha, look. Regardless of what we agree or disagree on, you can't claim to know what someone else believes when they claim to believe something different. You can look at what Bad Wolf said and respond "this is how it sounded to me" or "this is what I think you mean", but when he explicitly says "No, I didn't mean that", you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and claim to know what's really going on in Bad Wolf's mind. It kind of kills the discussion when you claim to have knowledge of Bad Wolf's own thoughts. Let him explain himself and stop asserting what he believes.

[Bad Wolf]

Yes, as he clearly admitted to employing a stereotype based on isolated experiences.

Where? Where did I do that? Please quote the line where I do that.

Pay attention to the first part of Jaclynn Glenn's video here

No thanks, type it out if it's worthwhile.

Oh and look! More intellectual laziness 'I don't care if there's more to learn on this subject, I think I'm right, therefore I am'

[John V]

Alpha, look. Regardless of what we agree or disagree on, you can't claim to know what someone else believes when they claim to believe something different. You can look at what Bad Wolf said and respond "this is how it sounded to me" or "this is what I think you mean", but when he explicitly says "No, I didn't mean that", you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and claim to know what's really going on in Bad Wolf's mind. It kind of kills the discussion when you claim to have knowledge of Bad Wolf's own thoughts. Let him explain himself and stop asserting what he believes.

When someone says things unprompted, then realizes that those statements may have made them look bad and they say they really meant something different, it's reasonable to put more credence in the unprompted statements.

[FatAndFaithless]

Ugh, whatever alpha, I'm glad you know exactly what other people believe without having to listen to them.

[TaraJo]

Yes, the OP was one isolated incident. But it's part of a pattern. So, sure, OP might be objectionable to feminism because of that one incident. Me, I object to feminism because the story OP told isn't surprising at all. I hear about stories like that all the fucking time. How often do things like this have to happen before you people acknowledge it?

Sorry, but when I hear of crazy behavior from a depressed, suicidal feminist who's receiving regular psychological care, it's not the feminism that sticks out to me. I'm gonna have to go ahead and attribute the crazy behavior to the known mental illness, rather than the feminism.

No, she doesn't seem to be a feminist leader, but she's empowered by the modern incarnation of feminism to see everything in society as victimizing her. The opposite side of that coin is that she's also empowered by feminism to see dudes as always victimizing. The victim mentality that I see within the movement is very strong and, yes, it hurts people. Hell, I have my own, personal experiences that can tell you how these attitudes can hurt people.

Yet your first response in this thread wasn't to acknowledge that there are crazy, extremist assholes within feminism and that many of them are actually leaders within society, college professors, authors and generally well respected, which puts them in positions to do a lot of damage.

Of course not, as OP had nothing to do with extremist feminist assholes who are leaders in society.

Only in that it has to do with the influence they have on their followers. Claiming that the extremist feminist leaders had nothing to do with this would be kinda like claiming that Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

No, your first response was to condemn the person who was telling his story.

Yes, as he clearly admitted to employing a stereotype based on isolated experiences.

So, at what point to these type of experiences become common enough that they're worthy of your attention? Or, at least, at what point do these kind of experiences become common enough that they aren't called "stereotypes based on isolated experiences?"

Pay attention to the first part of Jaclynn Glenn's video here

No thanks, type it out if it's worthwhile.

She left Catholicism for Protestantism (before later on becoming an atheist), and part of it was because she objected to the Catholic church covering for pedo-priests. Instead of acknowledging that there was an issue there, the Catholics all took the defensive which led her to believe that either 1) they actually were guilty of things like that or 2) their alegiance towards peope who do things like that is more important to them than understanding her perspective. Either way, it's shit. And she's said the same thing has happened to her when she speaks out about the bad behavior she's also seen come from many self identified feminists, especially the ones over at Atheism+ and FreeThoughtBlogs.

[ShaMan]

[Bad Wolf]

I don't know what the libel laws are in the UK, but I would think you have a case if she is publicly calling you an abuser. That kind of slander can have very real consequences.

I doubt her blog is seen by a lot of people and I don't have a criminal record or anything. And if anyone did judge me by it they would soon realise they were wrong after getting to know me a bit. I'm always going on about how disgusted I am that Chris Brown is still allowed to make music.

---

When someone says things unprompted, then realizes that those statements may have made them look bad and they say they really meant something different, it's reasonable to put more credence in the unprompted statements.

There is no point arguing with you any more, as I said before, you are right because you think you are right and that's all that matters.

---

She left Catholicism for Protestantism (before later on becoming an atheist), and part of it was because she objected to the Catholic church covering for pedo-priests. Instead of acknowledging that there was an issue there, the Catholics all took the defensive which led her to believe that either 1) they actually were guilty of things like that or 2) their alegiance towards peope who do things like that is more important to them than understanding her perspective. Either way, it's shit. And she's said the same thing has happened to her when she speaks out about the bad behavior she's also seen come from many self identified feminists, especially the ones over at Atheism+ and FreeThoughtBlogs.

And that not joining Atheism+ doesn't mean she doesn't agree with the message, just how things are getting done, like with her movie and popcorn club example. This is the same with me with feminism.

[TaraJo]

And that not joining Atheism+ doesn't mean she doesn't agree with the message, just how things are getting done, like with her movie and popcorn club example. This is the same with me with feminism.

QFT!

Seriously, I'm pro-choice, I support gender equality, I want to see more women getting into STEM fields and I'm obviously in support of GLBT rights. But I can't help but think feminism, in its current incarnation, is only making some of those issues worse, not to mention they're alienating a lot of good people who would really help them push what could easily be a positive agenda.

[Zidneya]

Zidenya, if you can't take those type of jokes then I am sorry

Apology accepted.

, but I'm not going to stop using them just because some people dislike it -

But you just said!…okey now I am confused.

And secondly what if I don't like using emoticons?

PEDRO: Hey. That's a little TOO far!
NICO: Make the mean bird take it !

If you can't understand that was a joke that's your problem.

Why? It ain't my statements the ones that are being misinterpreted.

I will use jokes about sexual frustration everytime about men and women, get used to it.

Don't tell that to me. You're the one who's complaining about other misinterpretating his words.

You people take things too harsh

Seems to me that if you don't care nor do anything to change your communication you shouldn't complain if people misinterpret what you say.

---

I'm curious. What happened with Jane after all this?

I have no idea, we cut off all kinds of communication with each other. I would like to have known what was going through her head at the time but I don't feel that I could cope properly seeing and talking to her again.

I think you took the right choice there buddy.