Horrible things in the bible

[Minimalist]

In a probably vain attempt to reclaim this thread from Lek's jesus-freak drivel....

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1 Samuel 15:3

Fuck your god.

[Cyberman]

I just want to take a shot at the notion that nonbelievers "choose" not to believe in "him". Belief isn't a matter of choice, at least not in the way that is being alluded. I simply don't believe. Similarly, I can't gestate a foetus - not out of choice, because there's little I'd like more, but because I just can't. The difference, of course, comes in a box labelled "compelling suitable evidence".

[The Valkyrie]

"Horrible parts of the bible"

There are good parts of the bible?

[Esquilax]

So what? Why do we have to have an analogy? God the Father accepted the sacrifice of his son as atonement for us. That's all that matters.

Translation: "I don't want to think about it! I have my presupposition! "

Lek, if the claim is nonsensical, which it is, then evidently there's either more to it, or the claim is not true. It is not a logically consistent proposition, and hence, something is wrong with it. That's what we're trying to demonstrate, when we make analogies.

[Tonus]

If man had not sinned, none of these atrocities would have happened.

Man cannot compel god to act, therefore you cannot blame humankind for the acts that god committed. That is akin to saying that leaving your door unlocked makes you solely to blame for the robbery and assault committed by someone else when he entered your home. In any other aspect of your life, you would not even consider such a ridiculous option as credible. God gets a free pass even though it makes no sense at all to portray him in this manner, as someone unable to avoid horrific actions because his kids misbehaved.

[genkaus]

I'm not pulling and bait and switch. I was responding to remarks about christians. I still maintain that our view of all this stuff that has been brought out about God's actions is based on different perspectives. God created all of us with the purpose of being with him for eternity. This world is all messed up and we all die one way or another. If God would reach down and burn up all these ISIS guys who are causing atrocities would you complain? No matter how we die, anyone who seeks after God will spend eternity with him. That's what we live for. I'm sorry that you don't like what he's done over time, but he's the creator and he can deal with his creation as he chooses. He sacrificed his son to atone for the sins of all of us because he loves us all. He made it possible for everyone to have eternal life with him--even those he violently wiped out. Since the sin of Adam, the world is not a nice place, but he's going to take us out of it. I'm not going to claim to be a christian and then pretend that the old testament doesn't exist. You've chosen not to believe in him, and that's your prerogative, but if I claim to be a christian, I must accept the God of the old testament as well as the God of the new testament. We must take God as a whole. That's just the way it is. Those were the actions of a loving and just God who wants all to be saved. People are quick to blame God, but won't take any blame upon themselves. Actions have major consequences with God, but the reward is great. You all need also need to read the new testament and view the whole story and then make your judgments.

What a disgusting pile of filth.

Actually, this is an accurate representation of your god's self-aggrandizing and corrupt morality. He wants everyone to spend eternity with him, but instead of simply giving it to them, he puts in arbitrary and ridiculous conditions upon it. And when he figures out how ridiculous those rules are, instead of changing them, he pulls a loophole out of his ass that makes no logical sense at all - but hey, whatever works for him.

---

My other thought was that we, as christians, accept God as perfectly loving and just.

That's the trick to it, isn't it? Presuppose your god as loving and just - then redefine love and justice since clearly, the old definitions don't fit him.

[Cyberman]

"Now look what you made me do" is a childish excuse even when used by children. Why should we tolerate it from a god?

[genkaus]

Yeah. I saw that video before. The difference is that God didn't just create a bad situation, put us there, then decide to save us from it. He created a good situation, put us there, then we blew it for ourselves.

Good situation, my ass. A situation that can be screwed up by two naked teenagers eating an easily accessible fruit is not a good situation. You put a child in the same room with a loaded gun, you are guilty of child-endangerment - doesn't matter is the kid "chose" to pull the trigger.

Besides, every birth after the screwed up situation is god's responsibility as well. He is putting them all in the bad situation.

He then offered his son to fulfill the justice that we were to receive and he's offering the good situation back to us.

Justice is a non-transferable commodity. The offer your god made is unjust.

Although we can have it back there are still consequences that we must suffer, like pain, suffering, and death. Is it ok for God to make us die from cancer, get smashed by a bus, or some other gory death? I know you think he should be a nice guy and end all this suffering stuff right now. God created it all and he holds the power over life and death. He can make the rules and the punishment for breaking them. I don't know his mind. I'm just happy he gave me a second chance and I'm taking it. God's not forcing anybody.

And we are back to justifying atrocities.

[downbeatplumb]

I don't have testimony from living witnesses that King Henry VIII existed, but I believe he existed. I have testimonies from people I know well of how their lives have been changed and I can see it in their lives.

You are comparing apples with a small slug from Alpha Centauri.

Henry has a vast swathe of evidence confirming from multiple sources and has a mountain of physical artifacts that can be proven to be linked to him, we have paintings of what he actually looked like, not some idealised converted image of zeus that has become your god boy...............oh why am I bothering. Lek knows all this but nothing will move his opinion because he wants to believe and that's the end of it.

He will continue to play word games to try and make it look like it is reasonable for a grown up to believe in these fairy tales in the 21st century.

I am tired of the stupid.

[Chas]

" He sacrificed his son to atone for the sins of all of us because he loves us all."

Anyone who can believe that can believe anything at all.

It is absurd on every level.