To explain knowledge of God

[Chas]

Oh F/F you say the darnest things.

Would you expect the President of the United States come to your house and personally ask for your vote?

Except the President actually does that. Just not every house.

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So your God failed your promises test. Therefore, he doesn't exist just like Odin doesn't exist.

He did not fail MY promise test.. MY promise test has one adhearing to his end of what is recorded in the bible. to date no one who says they sought God has actually followed the steps as outlined in luke 11.

There's your circular reasoning again - you assume it to be true to prove it is true; it is begging the question.

And telling people that it didn't work because they didn't do it right is a No True Scotsman fallacy.

[Surgenator]

My test was very simple. I asked (prayed by myself, prayed with a group, went to church, went to bible study, etc...) Jesus to come into my heart for over 15 years. He did not. Hence he doesn't exist.

Now, ask yourself did Jesus say that if you did what you specifically did, He would reveal himself? If yes then please provide Book Chapter and verse.

Psalm 34:4
Jeremiah 29:13
Matthew 7:7-8
1 Corinthians 2:10

There is a bunch more, but I would be wasting my time pointing them out.

[Drich]

The outline is no less vague and no less simple.

What are you talking about?!?!?
Ask
Seek
Knock
If you do you will get the Holy Spirit.

How is that complicated or vague?

Jesus only says to ask, and to persist,

How Do You Still Not
Understand?!?!

There is an element missing in your sumation. It is seeking
We must Ask SEEK and Knock/persist!

and his example does not imply that one must persist very long or very vehemently, because god is like a loving parent or caring neighbor.

No But one Must do all three and not two out of three!!! If you do two out of three you could be doing that for thr rest of your life.

How long you wait completley depends on how willing you are to follow where God leads!

Any attempt to explain away someone else's results by going beyond that are self-serving.

Not if that person does not follow the instruction posted by Christ in Luke 11.

God says do: ABC and I will give you 123

You then cant say I'll do AB or AC Or BC and demand 123. No. God's Party His rules.

If sincerity of motive is all that is required, then those of us who were raised in a faith and served and worshiped faithfully would have gotten that response.

Sincerity in following 'ABC'. Not sincerity in doing what you think God should respond to.

Paul/Saul did Everything He possibly could per the avaiablity of scripture and given his exposure to the truth. Even in Killing Christians Saul was in prayer, He was Seeking God's will and he had devoted his life to the persecution of the church.

If it's a simple and straightforward process, then success should be easy to attain and failure just as easy to identify and correct.

Again it's ease completely depends on you and the condition of your heart. Are you willing to assume that everything you think you and your faith knows of God is wrong, and are you willing to be rewritten in the matters of faith if need be? Are you willing to do whatever it takes even if it means your health wealth or friends? Can you love God with all of your being, having nothing else in your life come first, including yourself? If you can honestly answer yes to everything, then I may be alittle persumptious in saying so but I think you'd have enough to establish and maintain a system of belief before days end.

If not then Like Paul God may have to blind you or run you through the mill a few times to soften your pride or heart so as to be able to receive the gift of the Spirit.
The problem with most of you is when this happens or does not happen on your terms Pride demand you declare there is no God, if God does not work the way you understand or say God has to work.

I did not have any such event or problems in my life.

I can pray that you do if you like.

As I have explained before, I have always been a happy and optimistic person. I was happy as a theist, and am happy as an atheist. The only thing that made me stop believing was that I continued to test my beliefs and ultimately found them wanting once I stripped away the presuppositions and fallacies that supported them.

I did a thread of this once before. If your 'beliefs' do not relfect the God of the bible not what he has put together for us then what would make you think He would support your broken understanding of Him? If He supported your Broken understanding then He would only have verified the mistakes in theology you have. Sending you further away from who He actually is and closer to who you think God to be.

I am not picking on any one church, but if you look at Christianity as a whole there is one 'main stream group' who has played this senerio out. They have a series of head preists who get to rewrite the bible in their various decrees. now if you take the bible and read it and compare it to this particular religion' core beliefs you will find that some of their core doctrines are not only not in the bible what is in the bible flat our goes against what they say do. Now imagine if God supported them with miricals and all the trim and lace most of you look for (signs and wonders) This would only throw gasoline on the fire and they would freighttrain themselves away from God.

As it is God does not support those who do not know Him as He does for those who do. If you are not being supported, it does not mean God does not exist. It means your specific version of God does not exist. That is why we are told to KNOCK/Persist. Because depending on how hard we want to hold on to our personal version of God will determine on how long we will be knocking.

To date, the discussions here have shown that those who hold the beliefs I held (or similar ones) rely on the same presuppositions and explanations that I find lacking. For you, this may be sufficient to rationalize my results. I've seen people hang on to belief on flimsier premises-- I used to be one of them, after all.

What in the world makes you think I would be here taking flak for a god that I have question on? What have I said or done that makes you think that I do not know for a 1000% fact God is real alive and completely active in my life? What makes you think I have not tested and retested and challenged God every way we have been allowed to do so, and come back with the same answer? What makes you think I was never once like any of you?

I have literally found something, and He has transormed my life. What I have found is completely contary to everything I knew and everything I thought I ever knew of God, Heaven Hell, All of it. That's how I know it is not me who is comming up with this stuff. I find out a truth that I think is wrong per my understanding of religion, but find it to be biblically supported. So rather than stick with my religious views I follow the truth. Over time this has built into a unstopable without doubt system of belief.[/quote]

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I did not say all atheist minds were simple. I simply said to the simple atheist mind...
Meaning some are simple and to the simple ones they would think this way...

Whether or not you personally fall into this catagory greatly depends on whether or not you where thinking anything that I wrote out.

---

And I am trying to get you to think at the broader implications of your question.

You did not ask a "A" or "B" question even though you think you did.

There are responsiablities to bring life into this world. Purpose is only apart of that equasion.

To answer your question directly look to the orginal task/purpose of Adam. He was the master of God's creation. That would mean we to one degree or another will/should have a similar task when we are worthy to take such a responsiablity.

Well...thanks for not answering the question at all. For what purpose did God create humans?

Your joking right? Maybe try reading my posts before responding to them.

[FatAndFaithless]

Your joking right? Maybe try reading my posts before responding to them.

So God created man to be the master of his creation...why isn't God just the master of his creation? What purpose did Adam serve that God wasn't alraedy fulfilling himself?

[Cyberman]

Why not? Does he need our worship for some reason?

Didn't really think this through did you..
Are you familiar with greek or Roman mythology? Are you familiar with comic books, are you familiar with world history? What is the common thread between them?
Let me ask you this:
What would happen if the members of ISIS were literal gods?

What a blatant deflection. How the hell does that even address the question, let alone attempt to answer it?

[professor]

FAF, God wanted a giant family to interact with, have fun with, love and have mutual appreciation for.
It happens that He is really big. Big enough for that.

Nobody want a relationship with a robot, so you could not be pre-programed.
It has to be a choice you make on your own.
Being the masters of creation would be the first rung on a rising ladder, and the creation of Adam was the first step toward that.

[DramaQueen]

Are you a Jehovah witness or what? !!

[Tonus]

What are you talking about?!?!?
Ask
Seek
Knock
If you do you will get the Holy Spirit.

How is that complicated or vague?

I am agreeing that it is simple, and not complicated. I think it's vague because there is little to no detail on what A/S/King entails specifically.

How Do You Still Not
Understand?!?!

There is an element missing in your sumation. It is seeking
We must Ask SEEK and Knock/persist!

I understand that, but I think you misunderstand my point. Jesus says "ask, seek, and knock" and provides very little additional detail, except to explain that they must ask in prayer and persist in... knocking. He gives no further examples or details into what asking, seeking, or knocking entails. Simple, but vague. We can attach any specifics or meaning to the terms, and we can also disqualify someone else's efforts because our understanding of what is involved is different.

No But one Must do all three and not two out of three!!! If you do two out of three you could be doing that for thr rest of your life.

That's pretty cruel on god's part, isn't it? If a person is sincere but misses a step, god leaves him to his own devices.

Paul/Saul did Everything He possibly could per the avaiablity of scripture and given his exposure to the truth. Even in Killing Christians Saul was in prayer, He was Seeking God's will and he had devoted his life to the persecution of the church.

So... the way that we ask/seek/knock is less important than just doing it and being sincere, yes? This seems to be what you are saying. Actions (outside of those actions that encompass A/S/K itself) are less important than motive?

The problem with most of you is when this happens or does not happen on your terms Pride demand you declare there is no God, if God does not work the way you understand or say God has to work.

I think you are presuming a bit much. That I was open to changing my beliefs should be pretty obvious, since I went from a devout believer in god to becoming an atheist, again with no other impetus than seeking to strengthen my belief. I am not sure how much more open-minded a person can get.

I can pray that you do if you like.

Pray for god to make April Hunter my next-door neighbor and we'll call it even!

I did a thread of this once before. If your 'beliefs' do not relfect the God of the bible not what he has put together for us then what would make you think He would support your broken understanding of Him? If He supported your Broken understanding then He would only have verified the mistakes in theology you have. Sending you further away from who He actually is and closer to who you think God to be.

But you explained that god changed Paul's life, and I would say that Paul's understanding of god was certainly broken, if he thought that persecuting Christians was the right thing to do. If I was sincere and was serving god with devotion, my mistaken beliefs or misunderstanding of god should not have been an impediment to receiving his gifts. On the contrary, my sincerity and obvious willingness to accept new teaching should have made me a prime candidate.

I have literally found something, and He has transormed my life. What I have found is completely contary to everything I knew and everything I thought I ever knew of God, Heaven Hell, All of it. That's how I know it is not me who is comming up with this stuff. I find out a truth that I think is wrong per my understanding of religion, but find it to be biblically supported. So rather than stick with my religious views I follow the truth. Over time this has built into a unstopable without doubt system of belief.

I have no doubt that you are devout and convinced in your beliefs. My point is not that you should be convinced by my experiences or understanding. I am just explaining why your explanations do not convince me that your beliefs are the truth. Since I am not a theist anymore, I do not have an obligation to convert anyone; I come here to read about what others believe and why/how they justify it.

[FatAndFaithless]

FAF, God wanted a giant family to interact with, have fun with, love and have mutual appreciation for.
It happens that He is really big. Big enough for that.

Nobody want a relationship with a robot, so you could not be pre-programed.
It has to be a choice you make on your own.
Being the masters of creation would be the first rung on a rising ladder, and the creation of Adam was the first step toward that.

So..God was lonely? What about for the eternity before we existed and the eternity after we are gone?

[Tonus]

So..God was lonely? What about for the eternity before we existed and the eternity after we are gone?

Lots of wanking. How do you think he got "really big"?