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Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2014 at 5:16 pm by Mystic.)
I was thinking about this issue. If a religion is from God, there should never cease to be a link between God and humans in a form of a leader appointed by him. That leader would be chosen by God, not by the people, and would be able to do miracles. It's only in this instance can we know for sure the following :
1) What are the commands of morality and what morality generally encompasses objectively.
2) The true interpretation of the holy texts
3) The will of God regarding a new issue or dispute
4) That the religion has not be corrupted or is not man made
If he can perform miracles and is a purified holy person, I see that as a proof from God upon the people. In every age, such a leader would lead in all aspects of society and be looked unto as the light of God and representative of God.
Now the only thing is only no such leader exists. The ones claiming to be appointed guides have no proof, no miracles, and we are back to square 1. Or the religion claims to have one who can do miracles but is now hidden from the masses. So again, back to square 1.
If God wanted us to follow a religion from him he could of easily done so by appointed representatives in all places, in all times, with proofs of miracles.
The fact that he only does so in a specific time in a specific place for such brief period, shows, all in all, it's most likely is a man made religion.
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm
I'm not Roman Catholic but it seems that the Mother Church would satisfy your requirements. Prior to the first advent, God regularly sent prophets that performed miracles and spoke for the Lord. Following the first advent, the Popes, selected by the Holy Spirit by means of the council of Bishops speak for the Lord and Saints appear in each generation than confirm the Churches authority with miracles. (Why, oh why, am I defending the papists?)
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm by Mystic.)
(October 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I'm not Roman Catholic but it seems that the Mother Church would satisfy your requirements. Prior to the first advent, God regularly sent prophets that performed miracles and spoke for the Lord. Following the first advent, the Popes, selected by the Holy Spirit by means of the council of Bishops speak for the Lord and Saints appear in each generation than confirm the Churches authority with miracles. (Why, oh why, am I defending the papists?)
Except it doesn't because they were chosen by the people claiming it is God choosing them (big difference) and there are no saints appearing in each generation that do miracles. Where are these saints doing miracles? They would be all over the news and everyone would follow them!
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:26 pm
(October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If God wanted us to follow a religion from him he could of easily done so by appointed representatives in all places, in all times, with proofs of miracles.
MK,
I agree with your assessment; however, I have a slightly different take on your comment above. I've always wondered why a god with omni-qualities wouldn't simply make religious knowledge inate?
Anticipating excuses from apologists, all the 'mysterious ways' justification for the indoctrination process only lead to the conclusion that god is just fucking with us.
Just a different route to your conclusion.
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:28 pm
(October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I was thinking about this issue. If a religion is from God, there should never cease to be a link between God and humans in a form of a leader appointed by him. That leader would be chosen by God, not by the people, and would be able to do miracles. Doesn't follow. Why do you think that any of this should be true, if a religion is from a god?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:37 pm
(October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I was thinking about this issue. If a religion is from God, there should never cease to be a link between God and humans in a form of a leader appointed by him. That leader would be chosen by God, not by the people, and would be able to do miracles. It's only in this instance can we know for sure the following :
1) What are the commands of morality and what morality generally encompasses objectively.
2) The true interpretation of the holy texts
3) The will of God regarding a new issue or dispute
4) That the religion has not be corrupted or is not man made
If he can perform miracles and is a purified holy person, I see that as a proof from God upon the people. In every age, such a leader would lead in all aspects of society and be looked unto as the light of God and representative of God.
Now the only thing is only no such leader exists. The ones claiming to be appointed guides have no proof, no miracles, and we are back to square 1. Or the religion claims to have one who can do miracles but is now hidden from the masses. So again, back to square 1.
If God wanted us to follow a religion from him he could of easily done so by appointed representatives in all places, in all times, with proofs of miracles.
The fact that he only does so in a specific time in a specific place for such brief period, shows, all in all, it's most likely is a man made religion.
Even if you don't quite believe it, you still take religion way too seriously.
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:48 pm
God want you to follow Him.
Look at the mess following man has made.
Yeah, there is a dude coming who will fulfill most of what you want-
The Mahdi /Antichrist's False prophet.
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2014 at 5:51 pm by Mystic.)
(October 21, 2014 at 5:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I was thinking about this issue. If a religion is from God, there should never cease to be a link between God and humans in a form of a leader appointed by him. That leader would be chosen by God, not by the people, and would be able to do miracles. Doesn't follow. Why do you think that any of this should be true, if a religion is from a god?
It's not conclusive, but given the function the leader would do (be a guide, be a proof, a way to know the religion is correct, etc), I think it's fair to say this would be the most likely scenario if God wanted us to follow holy men. He would not cease the proof his revelations, his revelations would not stop, and there would be a guide in each age. Why would God communicate to one generation and then stop for the rest?
(October 21, 2014 at 5:37 pm)Chuck Wrote: Even if you don't quite believe it, you still take religion way too seriously.
I do and I believe it's part of my mental illness (obsession with religion is a symptom in particular with me).
I don't know how to deal with it.
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 6:13 pm
(October 21, 2014 at 4:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If he can perform miracles and is a purified holy person, I see that as a proof from God upon the people.
This is where it all falls down, you see. Hume disposed of miracles more than two and a half centuries age. There are no miracles, never have been, never can be.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Appointed leader in each age needed for religion to be true.
October 21, 2014 at 6:21 pm
MK,
Are you familiar with the Piraha of South America? If not, I think you would enjoy learning about them, as I think their story butts up against what you're touching on in the OP.
They are a tribal people of hunter-gatherers notable, among many other things, for never having invented a religion of their own, including an origin story, and for resisting multiple attempts at indoctrination from missionaries. (Their language is also an interesting study as an argument is made for it lacking the recursive element that Chomsky posits as the common base of all language.)
I also can't help but to notice the vast amount of human existence you are leaving out of your assessment. Not only was most of the unreachable yet inhabited world left out of "God's glory" in biblical times, but so was a long stretch of generations going back some 200,000 years. Then, when you add all the other human species, you get a lot of hell-bound souls up shit creek without a paddle.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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