Rape victim sentenced to death in Iran.

[Losty]

How should we know? As far as I can tell she wasn't allowed any defense in court. Maybe she's guilty maybe not. We will never know. But execution is always wrong regardless.

Since Iran is under no obligation to make any trial public, why are we harping on the superficial appearance of this particular case?

No. I just said we don't know, and this is why. I don't care about the appearance of the case. I still think execution is always wrong though.

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Is "rape victim sentenced to death" your title or theirs?

I never said the case was fake. I said, we don't know if she's guilty or not because they just found her guilty without allowing her to have proper defense. Take a fucking chill pill.

Holy fucking crap. You are stuck in the moment just like white bigots and even whites who are not bigots who cannot understand the outrage over Micheal Brown.

CONDITIONS AND CLIMATE are a problem there and there is no way under those conditions in that climate to claim she got a fair trial.

The law is on the books that the state can execute you for your own rape. That is not a neutral law, that is a sexist law based on the Koran. As such there is no way one can see the state or the court as objective or fair to women. Anymore than white Christians under segregation could be viewed as fair when those laws existed.

I don't see where the outrage is coming from. All I have said is that we don't know the details of the case because it appears that she hasn't been given a fair trial. I am almost agreeing with you with less irrational anger towards people who are just discussing. Like I said, take a fucking chill pill.

[Brian37]

Since Iran is under no obligation to make any trial public, why are we harping on the superficial appearance of this particular case?

No. I just said we don't know, and this is why. I don't care about the appearance of the case. I still think execution is always wrong though.

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Holy fucking crap. You are stuck in the moment just like white bigots and even whites who are not bigots who cannot understand the outrage over Micheal Brown.

CONDITIONS AND CLIMATE are a problem there and there is no way under those conditions in that climate to claim she got a fair trial.

The law is on the books that the state can execute you for your own rape. That is not a neutral law, that is a sexist law based on the Koran. As such there is no way one can see the state or the court as objective or fair to women. Anymore than white Christians under segregation could be viewed as fair when those laws existed.

I don't see where the outrage is coming from. All I have said is that we don't know the details of the case because it appears that she hasn't been given a fair trial. I am almost agreeing with you with less irrational anger towards people who are just discussing. Like I said, take a fucking chill pill.

Here calm tone now. Let me repeat.

What makes it wrong is the fact that the law is on the books at all. That law is sexist and the court and state who enforce that law cannot be trusted to give that woman a fair trial because the law exists at all.

Blacks old enough to remember segregation can tell you that. You cannot trust a system that is bias prior to you ending up in that court.

A laypesons example would be having two teams in an NFL game where one team has as many players on the field as they want, and the REFFs wearing that team's jersey, while the other team is limited to one player and the REFFS don't give equal treatment to that other team. If you were on that team limited to one player vs unlimited players, would you even want to step on that field prior to the game? Would you trust the reffs?

Now, that is how women in Iran are treated. They are the weaker team, and the REFFS are the Imams who set up the playing field, set up the rules and do not favor women's rights anywhere close to what the west does.

It is not about her or one case. Iran's justice system is sexist and cannot be trusted anymore than blacks trusted laws under segregation.

[Aractus]

Now here you are defending a climate where women are not allowed to defend themselves against assault. FUCK YOU.

I'm not defending anything - you came here and claimed that the woman was a rape victim when in fact she was not. At the very most she was the victim of an "attempted rape".

If they put her to death for this, they are sending a message to women, that they are second class, and they have no say in how men treat them.

So what? It's the complete opposite in the USA you know - almost all women who get sentenced to death in the USA have their sentences commuted down, and overall women do not serve the same length of time for the same crimes that men do. That's not unique to the USA, in fact in most western countries on average men serve longer than women for the same crimes.

What's my point? My point is you'd be hard-pressed to find any society where men and women are actually treated equally under the law.

[Brian37]

Now here you are defending a climate where women are not allowed to defend themselves against assault. FUCK YOU.

I'm not defending anything - you came here and claimed that the woman was a rape victim when in fact she was not. At the very most she was the victim of an "attempted rape".

If they put her to death for this, they are sending a message to women, that they are second class, and they have no say in how men treat them.

So what? It's the complete opposite in the USA you know - almost all women who get sentenced to death in the USA have their sentences commuted down, and overall women do not serve the same length of time for the same crimes that men do. That's not unique to the USA, in fact in most western countries on average men serve longer than women for the same crimes.

What's my point? My point is you'd be hard-pressed to find any society where men and women are actually treated equally under the law.

Oh really, sounds just like a gun nutter "Other bad shit happens so lets not even try to do better at all"

Already posted in another thread but since you don't seem to understand try telling this Muslim women "fuck it, men are going to be sexist anyway".

Here it is again. http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/...n-affleck/

If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

[Jackalope]

How do you know if she was raped or not?

I don't think the reasoning for her execution changes how wrong it is to execute someone, but I suppose Alice is right that there isn't much to be done.

If you follow the link in the original post the woman claims the man she killed tried to rape her. Attempted rape is not rape.

It also means she's not a murderer, if her claim is true. Sadly, Islamic law does not give women a fair shake in these situations.

[Anomalocaris]

The key is there is no evidence "this situation" existed other than it was in her alibi, and one would expect an alibi, if false, to hit these buttons. We don't know how the alibi was disposed of in the court proceedings.

[Brian37]

The key is there is no evidence "this situation" existed other than it was in her alibi, and one would expect an alibi, if false, to hit these buttons. We don't know how the alibi was disposed of in the court proceedings.

HOLY FUCK did you not read a damned post I made?

That would be like defending a slave owner if a slave was accused of trying to stab him.

The fact that there is a DEATH SENTENCE ON THE BOOKS BECAUSE YOU WERE RAPED, cannot give confidence to any girl or woman BEFORE they even enter a courtroom.

Same with segregation laws with blacks in America. If you have laws already stacked against you, even before you get in that courtroom or get accused of anything you are NOT going to have confidence in that system.

WOMEN in Iran are not even close to being treated equally and even in the United States even we still do not have Equal pay and we still have our right wing that HAVE made laws controlling the bodies of women. Iranian woman have even LESS rights.

Again, even in America, and I do not know how old you are. But I am old enough to remember when girls were blamed for their own assaults and rapes. My older sister BLAMED HERSELF for her own rape because back then that is what society found acceptable. Do you think it would have been right for that same society to sentence my older sister to death?

In Pakistan a woman has been sentenced to death for blasphemy. In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive cars and atheists have been deemed by the state "terrorists"

And here you are stupidly thinking Iran's system is fair to everyone. Again, if you cannot understand what is wrong with what you are arguing, you are part of the problem.

[Anomalocaris]

Tone down the histrionics. No, I am not saying Iran's system is fair. I am saying there isn't enough to go on in this case to say it is more unfair than usual. You can argue against Iran not letting woman testify. You have no basis to say they hanged a rape victim any more than you have to say every Iranian man stabbed to death by s woman must have been a would be rapist.

[Heywood]

If you follow the link in the original post the woman claims the man she killed tried to rape her. Attempted rape is not rape.

It also means she's not a murderer, if her claim is true. Sadly, Islamic law does not give women a fair shake in these situations.

If it is legal for me to shoot a thief in the back while he is running from my home with my TV in hand then I have not committed murder if the man dies. However if it is illegal for me to shoot a thief in the back while he is running from my home, then I have committed murder.

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. It is a legal concept....not a moral one.

It may be that in Iran, it is simply illegal to kill another human being even if they are trying to rape you.

[Brian37]

Tone down the histrionics. No, I am not saying Iran's system is fair. I am saying there isn't enough to go on in this case to say it is more unfair than usual. You can argue against Iran not letting woman testify. You have no basis to say they hanged a rape victim any more than you have to say every Iranian man stabbed to death by s woman must have been a would be rapist.

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

If you agree the system is not fair then there is no fucking point arguing the merits of this case in the first place.

Again, if the slave owner is accused of stabbing his master, do the details of that make slavery right because of the accusation? She was executed not for murder or even "attempted murder", the law language was about rape and not about her raping someone else, but the assault on her own body.

The system has to be fair BEFORE the system can be trusted, it cannot be valued when it is not fair.

You are empowering their justifications even if you think you are not by making the issue about the details of one case when the bigger picture is the issue.