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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 17, 2014 at 7:33 am
(October 27, 2014 at 4:14 pm)trmof Wrote: I would like to get your general opinions on the validity of hard atheism. Specifically, I would like to get the views of the agnostic atheists. The reason being, just as confrontational and irrational Christians are much more likely to seek out a bitter debate with atheists than those who follow the example of Christ, hard atheists are also more likely to seek out a bitter debate than agnostic atheists.
The problem of Christians behaving in an a manner which besmirches Christianity is often discussed, both on the internet and in the real world. However, I think the issue of hard atheists painting agnostic atheists in a bad light is hardly ever addressed, and as a consequence agnostic atheists are less likely to correct hard atheists on their rational errors than Christians are to correct their fellow Christians on theological ones.
And so a poll: Do you think that hard atheism is irrational considering that man can not know what he doesn't know?
It requires no effort to not make a decision, it requires no conviction, no faith. But we have evolved with brains that are hardwired for belief - leap I say, drink deeply from the chalice that is scientific theory, for we do not know how empty we are until we are filled.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 17, 2014 at 7:36 am
(This post was last modified: December 17, 2014 at 7:39 am by robvalue.)
To be clear, I can't vote yes or no because it depends on the claim.
Just like if someone says, "Do you believe that horshammmumy is real?" I can have no valid opinion until I understand the question. And the average God claim makes about as much sense. If they don't even know what they're talking about, how am I supposed to give an opinion?
So I just say I'm an overall atheist against everything I have heard, and ram the juice up if they happen to put in actually impossible criteria.
If the question is, "is gnostic atheism irrational against your standard omni-God claim" then the answer is no. Is that the question?
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 17, 2014 at 8:11 pm
Towards the claim of a God in general I find the position of hard atheism to be untenable. Especially some the definition of god is so broad. But if we mean an supernatural creative force behind the creation of the universe I think the claim that it absolutely does not exist is somewhat hard to defend.
Against the god Yahweh, yes, I am a hard atheist. He does not exist. 100% sure. And for the same reason that I know harry potter isn't real.
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 17, 2014 at 8:48 pm
Regardless of the title of my views I strive to remain tolerant and avoid meaningless confrontation.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 17, 2014 at 8:58 pm
(December 17, 2014 at 3:53 am)roaster Wrote: This is what brought me to this forum to start with. I am a long standing Non-Thiestic guy. i had a great parochial education but never got the 'warm fuzzy' feeling my classmates did.
No biggie. I never felt it was important for me to go out and proselytize about my non-belief in a supreme being control everything.
I work with a man about 15 years my junior(I'm 46) and he is a big Epicurus/Bertrand Russell supporter.
I read most of this material YEARS ago, so initially it was a common point of interest.
Now, though, he has this tendency to go out and discuss this point of view with all the people we work with, who are predominantly Christian (or Protestant as I would describe them).
When someone ends a point with "well thats just what I believe, thats why I believe it" he gets worked into a lather.
Eventually they usually wind up submitting just to make it end, but i hate it for him, and them.
He refers to these exchanges as trying to 'teach evolution to creationists'
I guess I am asking if anyone has been on one side or another of this point of action, being so strong in your understandings that its eerily similar to the proselytizing of a Southern Baptist minister?
Thoughts??
I haven't been in that position a lot but I would be uncomfortable with it too. If it is a business, your customers surely are not required to endure his interrogation; if I was his employer, he'd only get one chance to avoid becoming my ex-employee.
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 18, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Is that hard atheism in your pocket, or are you just excited to see me? 
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 18, 2014 at 3:40 pm
Hard atheism? Nah, I'm really just a softy and try to steer clear of people that are preachy. I'd be a hypocrite if I condoned to that type of behavior. I've had to get loud and stern before with a coworker and my old Dr when they had the nerve to preach their BS to me, but that's understandable as far add I'm concerned.
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 18, 2014 at 4:13 pm
(December 18, 2014 at 3:31 pm)Tonus Wrote: Is that hard atheism in your pocket, or are you just excited to see me?
It can be very hard in the mornings.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 18, 2014 at 4:39 pm
My position on hard atheism?
Depends. Sometimes on my knees, sometimes on my back . . .
Dying to live, living to die.
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RE: Your stance on Hard Atheism
December 18, 2014 at 10:15 pm
(December 18, 2014 at 4:39 pm)Beccs Wrote: My position on hard atheism?
Depends. Sometimes on my knees, sometimes on my back . . .
I'd like to try the sampler please.
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