Your stance on Hard Atheism

[trmof]

Christians also say other gods do not exist without an iota of proof.

Without proof that they can show you, you mean. That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

---

Do you think that hard atheism is irrational considering that man can not know what he doesn't know?

No. The question as worded indicates that you don't understand what positive atheism actually is (I've never before heard the term 'hard atheism').

An atheist, as such, is one who lacks all belief in all gods, nothing more or less. It is not an insistence that gods cannot exist. Rather, it is a statement about the lack of belief of a particular individual. One doesn't need to be metaphysically certain that gods don't exist in order to be a positive atheist - all that is needed is to lack the belief that they do exist.

And for what it's worth, 'man cannot know what he doesn't know' applies perfectly well to theists. By way of example, you don't know that God exists, you simply believe that he does, which isn't the same thing at all.

Boru

Firstly, your "Religious Views" are: Anti-theist, which would imply that you would be against a god even if you knew for sure that it existed.

Second, you don't understand the terms involved. If you are willing to concede that a god or gods could possibly exist, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you consider it a fact that no such thing does or can exist, then you are a hard atheist or gnostic atheist.

[Aoi Magi]

Without proof that they can show you, you mean.

Without proof(from other religions) that you ignore you mean?

That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

So says every other religious people from every religion on this planet.

---

Anti-theist != Anti-God
Anti-theist == Anti-Gods-FanClub


You cannot be anti something which has no plausibility towards existence.

[trmof]

By hard atheism, do you simply mean gnostic atheism?

Yes.

[abaris]

Christians also say other gods do not exist without an iota of proof.

Without proof that they can show you, you mean. That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

So try to riddle me this: Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Does god hint at the existence of other gods here?

Or Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Seems to be in a kind of competition here.

[trmof]

Extremism is bad, regardless of what group you're in. I don't pay much attention to hard atheism, and I can understand why some people would fight fire with fire when it comes to the extreme beliefs of some religious people. You start talking about killing homosexuals, and saying atheists are evil, because of a book, and you'll get some people reacting to violence with violence.

I would discourage any kind of extremism, though.

We can agree on all of that. However, hard atheists are just as likely to conflate peaceful Christians with extreme ones and blindly attack them as extremist Christians are to do the same. I think we should have just as much condemnation for the intolerance of hard atheists as we do for violent Christians.

---

Without proof that they can show you, you mean. That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

So try to riddle me this: Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Does god hint at the existence of other gods here?

Or Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Seems to be in a kind of competition here.

Yes, contrary to popular belief, many if not most Christians believe in the existence of many gods. They simply believe that the creator God made them and that they rebelled. I believe Allah exists, I just think he's a prick.

---

Without proof that they can show you, you mean.

Without proof(from other religions) that you ignore you mean?

That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

So says every other religious people from every religion on this planet.

---

Anti-theist != Anti-God
Anti-theist == Anti-Gods-FanClub


You cannot be anti something which has no plausibility towards existence.

Yes, and I fully believe that they have made contact with some sort of superhuman entity. I just happen to think it's the wrong one.

[Aoi Magi]

Yes, and I fully believe that they have made contact with some sort of superhuman entity. I just happen to think it's the wrong one.

And your proof for that would be?

[Chad32]

Extremism is bad, regardless of what group you're in. I don't pay much attention to hard atheism, and I can understand why some people would fight fire with fire when it comes to the extreme beliefs of some religious people. You start talking about killing homosexuals, and saying atheists are evil, because of a book, and you'll get some people reacting to violence with violence.

I would discourage any kind of extremism, though.

We can agree on all of that. However, hard atheists are just as likely to conflate peaceful Christians with extreme ones and blindly attack them as extremist Christians are to do the same. I think we should have just as much condemnation for the intolerance of hard atheists as we do for violent Christians.

We should admonish anyone who says all members of a group are the same as any individual. Humans just don't work that way. My grandmother isn't about to run down a homosexual with her car, even though she doesn't care for them. I am not going to say that religion should be banned, despite hearing some atheists say it. You can believe what you want. Just don't terrorize people that don't.

People will be people, and we should discourage people who try to push others down, and punish people who threaten lives because their belief differ. Regardless of what group these people belong to.

[trmof]

Do you think that hard atheism is irrational considering that man can not know what he doesn't know?

No. The question as worded indicates that you don't understand what positive atheism actually is (I've never before heard the term 'hard atheism').

An atheist, as such, is one who lacks all belief in all gods, nothing more or less. It is not an insistence that gods cannot exist. Rather, it is a statement about the lack of belief of a particular individual. One doesn't need to be metaphysically certain that gods don't exist in order to be a positive atheist - all that is needed is to lack the belief that they do exist.

And for what it's worth, 'man cannot know what he doesn't know' applies perfectly well to theists. By way of example, you don't know that God exists, you simply believe that he does, which isn't the same thing at all.

Boru

Yes, I do know that God exists. Whether or not you believe me and whether or not I can share that knowledge with you has no bearing on that knowledge. I am a gnostic Christian. I know God exists.

---

We can agree on all of that. However, hard atheists are just as likely to conflate peaceful Christians with extreme ones and blindly attack them as extremist Christians are to do the same. I think we should have just as much condemnation for the intolerance of hard atheists as we do for violent Christians.

We should admonish anyone who says all members of a group are the same as any individual. Humans just don't work that way. My grandmother isn't about to run down a homosexual with her car, even though she doesn't care for them. I am not going to say that religion should be banned, despite hearing some atheists say it. You can believe what you want. Just don't terrorize people that don't.

People will be people, and we should discourage people who try to push others down, and punish people who threaten lives because their belief differ. Regardless of what group these people belong to.

There is a small yet very vocal contingent of hard atheists who advocate for the genocide of all religious people. From your statements I'm sure you would agree these people are fucking nuts. I think it's high time for a more civilized dialogue between atheists and the religious, and while violent Christians are constantly condemned, there is much less acknowledgement of the danger of hard atheism. For example, if the subject of Stalin or Mao and the millions of people they killed is brought up, it often leads to a "no true atheist" argument.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Christians also say other gods do not exist without an iota of proof.

Without proof that they can show you, you mean. That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

---

No. The question as worded indicates that you don't understand what positive atheism actually is (I've never before heard the term 'hard atheism').

An atheist, as such, is one who lacks all belief in all gods, nothing more or less. It is not an insistence that gods cannot exist. Rather, it is a statement about the lack of belief of a particular individual. One doesn't need to be metaphysically certain that gods don't exist in order to be a positive atheist - all that is needed is to lack the belief that they do exist.

And for what it's worth, 'man cannot know what he doesn't know' applies perfectly well to theists. By way of example, you don't know that God exists, you simply believe that he does, which isn't the same thing at all.

Boru

Firstly, your "Religious Views" are: Anti-theist, which would imply that you would be against a god even if you knew for sure that it existed.

Second, you don't understand the terms involved. If you are willing to concede that a god or gods could possibly exist, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you consider it a fact that no such thing does or can exist, then you are a hard atheist or gnostic atheist.

Yet again, you miss the point. My religious views are 'anti-theist-, yes. But that doesn't mean what you seem to think. I'm anti-theist, which has nothing to do with whether or not gods exist.

Again, you're misusing the term 'athiest' - it isn't about certainty, it is about lack of belief.

Boru

[trmof]

Yes, and I fully believe that they have made contact with some sort of superhuman entity. I just happen to think it's the wrong one.

And your proof for that would be?

Three reasons: A) I already know superhuman beings exist, so for the most part I take them at their word. B) My God tells me they exist. And C) I have also had contact with superhuman beings other than my God. Again, if you don't believe me that is your prerogative, it doesn't negate the fact that it has been proven to me.

---

Without proof that they can show you, you mean. That does not mean God has not provided sufficient proof to them. I would fall into that category. God has proven his existence to me in a way which I can not adequately describe to another person, a way which is metaphysical, transcendent, and glorious beyond words, and it should be no surprise that I wish others to experience the same thing. If you choose not to believe me then that is fine, but I would hope that you would believe my intentions are pure.

---

Firstly, your "Religious Views" are: Anti-theist, which would imply that you would be against a god even if you knew for sure that it existed.

Second, you don't understand the terms involved. If you are willing to concede that a god or gods could possibly exist, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you consider it a fact that no such thing does or can exist, then you are a hard atheist or gnostic atheist.

Yet again, you miss the point. My religious views are 'anti-theist-, yes. But that doesn't mean what you seem to think. I'm anti-theist, which has nothing to do with whether or not gods exist.

Again, you're misusing the term 'athiest' - it isn't about certainty, it is about lack of belief.

Boru

I am not misusing the term "atheist," as some of the more educated atheists here should be able to tell you. There is small but very vocal group of atheists who claim to know that it is impossible for gods to exist. These are called "hard atheists" or "gnostic atheists," and they are usually irrational assholes who like to get in fights. If you are not one of them then you are an "agnostic atheist" The fact that hard atheists exist is the reason that the clarification is necessary.