Your stance on Hard Atheism

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yes, I do know that God exists. Whether or not you believe me and whether or not I can share that knowledge with you has no bearing on that knowledge. I am a gnostic Christian. I know God exists.

You 'know' no such thing. You merely believe it. Why? Because there are explanations for the phenomena that cause you to believe in God that are equally as good as the God-derived explanations. When you're faced with two equal sets of explanations and opt for one over the other (especially in view of lack of evidence for Godism and in spite of the overwhelmingly strong evidentiary support for naturalistic explanations) you've opted for belief over knowledge. Epistomologically, that's always been a weak stance to take.

That being said, I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. That is to say, I don't think you're having us on or anything of that sort. I think you hold your beliefs deeply and seriously but at they end of the day, that's all they are - beliefs, not knowledge.

Boru

[abaris]

Yes, contrary to popular belief, many if not most Christians believe in the existence of many gods. They simply believe that the creator God made them and that they rebelled. I believe Allah exists, I just think he's a prick.

Well, that's not exactly how I have heard it when I was brought up being a catholic. It's also contradicting the bible. Isaiah 45:5: I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Also Allah is supposed to be the same guy as the christian god. He even sent his buddy Gabriel to Mohammed. Even Jesus plays a prominent role in that book, though not as a god: http://carm.org/what-does-islam-and-qura...bout-jesus

As for your original question, I don't think you'll find that many what you call "Hard atheists", since atheism in my book is simply not believing in the existence of any deity.

I have exactly the same evidence for the existence of Zeus, Odin, Saturn and what christians like to call god. In short, none, outside of campfire tales and written legends. I wouldn't claim to have proof of the absence of god or gods. You can't disprove what isn't there for you to see. You also can't disprove pixies and fairies.

[Aoi Magi]

And your proof for that would be?

Three reasons: A) I already know superhuman beings exist, so for the most part I take them at their word. B) My God tells me they exist. And C) I have also had contact with superhuman beings other than my God. Again, if you don't believe me that is your prerogative, it doesn't negate the fact that it has been proven to me.

At this point I have no doubt you hear voices, but that is not something I can help with. Rather I am asking
- what characteristics does that one specific voice in your head have which makes it the true gods voice and everyone elses "something else"? How do you know they are all wrong?

- what makes you so special that god has chosen only you to reveal himself?

[Chad32]

There is a small yet very vocal contingent of hard atheists who advocate for the genocide of all religious people. From your statements I'm sure you would agree these people are fucking nuts. I think it's high time for a more civilized dialogue between atheists and the religious, and while violent Christians are constantly condemned, there is much less acknowledgement of the danger of hard atheism. For example, if the subject of Stalin or Mao and the millions of people they killed is brought up, it often leads to a "no true atheist" argument.

Yes they are bad people. There isn't as much focus on the extremist atheists, partly because they don't have as much power, and partly because the core of christian and muslim beliefs is violence against people who aren't. Stalin was an exception. Not the rule.

[Anomalocaris]

Extremism is bad, regardless of what group you're in. I don't pay much attention to hard atheism, and I can understand why some people would fight fire with fire when it comes to the extreme beliefs of some religious people. You start talking about killing homosexuals, and saying atheists are evil, because of a book, and you'll get some people reacting to violence with violence.

I would discourage any kind of extremism, though.

2+2=4ism isn't bad, 2+2=~4ism is.

[Alex K]

By hard atheism, do you simply mean gnostic atheism?

Yes.

Meh, not precise enough. What do you mean by hard atheism?
What are the characteristics of God we are talking about?

[Aoi Magi]

A-holes are A-holes, and they belong to every group, sect and community. There can be moderate and liberal A-holes too, but gnostic atheism isn't volent or irrational, and is nothing like religious fundamentalism.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

They simply believe that the creator God made them and that they rebelled. I believe Allah exists, I just think he's a prick.

*indulgent chuckle* They're the same god, mate.

Boru

[trmof]

Yes, I do know that God exists. Whether or not you believe me and whether or not I can share that knowledge with you has no bearing on that knowledge. I am a gnostic Christian. I know God exists.

You 'know' no such thing. You merely believe it. Why? Because there are explanations for the phenomena that cause you to believe in God that are equally as good as the God-derived explanations. When you're faced with two equal sets of explanations and opt for one over the other (especially in view of lack of evidence for Godism and in spite of the overwhelmingly strong evidentiary support for naturalistic explanations) you've opted for belief over knowledge. Epistomologically, that's always been a weak stance to take.

That being said, I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. That is to say, I don't think you're having us on or anything of that sort. I think you hold your beliefs deeply and seriously but at they end of the day, that's all they are - beliefs, not knowledge.

Boru

I may have already asked you before in another thread, but what would God have to do to prove to you that he exists? How high is your bar set.

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They simply believe that the creator God made them and that they rebelled. I believe Allah exists, I just think he's a prick.

*indulgent chuckle* They're the same god, mate.

Boru

No, they are not. You don't get to define the characteristics of a supposedly fictional character that you did not create, just as you are not able to decide that Harry Potter is a purple giraffe without people correcting you.

[Aoi Magi]

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You 'know' no such thing. You merely believe it. Why? Because there are explanations for the phenomena that cause you to believe in God that are equally as good as the God-derived explanations. When you're faced with two equal sets of explanations and opt for one over the other (especially in view of lack of evidence for Godism and in spite of the overwhelmingly strong evidentiary support for naturalistic explanations) you've opted for belief over knowledge. Epistomologically, that's always been a weak stance to take.

That being said, I don't doubt the sincerity of your belief. That is to say, I don't think you're having us on or anything of that sort. I think you hold your beliefs deeply and seriously but at they end of the day, that's all they are - beliefs, not knowledge.

Boru

I may have already asked you before in another thread, but what would God have to do to prove to you that he exists? How high is your bar set.

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*indulgent chuckle* They're the same god, mate.

Boru

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No, they are not. You don't get to define the characteristics of a supposedly fictional character that you did not create, just as you are not able to decide that Harry Potter is a purple giraffe without people correcting you.

That's why we keep asking you to define the characteristics of the fictional character that you created.