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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:07 pm
(November 24, 2014 at 7:01 pm)dyresand Wrote: (November 24, 2014 at 6:51 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Ok well how about this..you do your own research to figure out why...but the fact of the matter is, they do.
Obviously..."evidences" are subjective...but again, the record is credible enough for even non-Christians to believe it. Now whether or not this includes you, I don't really give a damn...because one could play the role of a "super skeptic" about any event or person in history...but if we are all honest with ourselves and willing to put our biases aside for just a second, then this wouldn't happen.
i don't know why your trying to pull historical evidence for jesus when history does not play well with religious and religion as fact.
http://www.bandoli.no/whyjesus.htm
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/01/5_reason...r_existed/
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/america...82671.html
Right, Richard Carrier doesn't believe in the historical Jesus, but he is also included in the minority of historians that DON'T...but the vast majority of them DO...now sure, you can't please everyone, but at the same time, the evidence has most historians convinced.
Plus, Richard Carrier already got his ass handed to him in a debate by a more polished William Lane Craig on the same subject that this thread is titled as...so his objections didn't stand up to scrutiny by the very best that Christians have in apologetics.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:08 pm
WLC is the "best Christians have"?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:10 pm
None the sources mentioned (except the controversial Josephus passage) have anything at all to say about the Resurrection, which I thought was the point of the OP - certainly of the title.
Even if Jesus was an historical figure (about which I am undecided), that is no indication of his divinity, or that his purported 'miracles' were any such thing. Many established historical figures have claimed divine or semi-divine status, but that's no reason to go all squiffy over Ramses or Alexander.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 24, 2014 at 7:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
HM, I don't know why you keep harping on that, the beliefs of the majority or authorities don't carry any weight with either you or me, because we know that this would be illogical. The evidence that their beliefs are sourced from would be so much more helpful, don't you think?
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:12 pm
(November 24, 2014 at 7:01 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: (November 24, 2014 at 6:54 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Even Josephus, which is widely regarded as later interpolation (i.e. forgery) - and the only one that actually mentions Jesus. That kind of "honest, and modest"?
It's hearsay, *at best*.
Dude, you have to look at the entire freakin' context. Yeah, Josephus is the only one that mentioned the name "Jesus", but so what? It is clear based on the context of the other sources that they are talking about Jesus.
Serious, be foreal.
Yet, you haven't made those connections, over other's objections - in this very thread. Most of your sources refer only to christians. - and nobody has expressed doubt that they exist.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:14 pm
Quote: Yeah, Josephus is the only one that mentioned the name "Jesus", but so what?
Because when the forgery was made in the 4th century jesus had been invented.
Quote:It is clear based on the context of the other sources that they are talking about Jesus.
No, it is not. Take the holy fucking blinders off.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:17 pm
(November 24, 2014 at 7:07 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Plus, Richard Carrier already got his ass handed to him in a debate by a more polished William Lane Craig on the same subject that this thread is titled as...so his objections didn't stand up to scrutiny by the very best that Christians have in apologetics.
As if debate can establish anything beyond whom brings the best rhetoric.
WLC is a good rhetorician, and nothing more.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:18 pm
(November 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Um, no, the sources you offered..in addition to being riddled with questions of authenticity, talk about people -who believe- in jesus....maybe.
Bullshit. The only one source that really has an authenticity issue is the Josephus account...and we've already identified the problem and omitted it from the passage....the only problem is, Jesus is still the subject of the passage, which is more than enough for Christians.
(November 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -and don't play dumb. Bart believes, but I don't give a shit..and neither should you, at least not if you're maintaining the fiction of attempting a case for christ. If you posted "A case for people who might have believed in a christ figure in the past and those who believe in a Jesus today" I wouldn't be giving you any shit whatsoever - I don't even think that such a case would be required....but that's not what you're attempting to do, now is it?
Bullshit. Tacitus said that "Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at that hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate."
Do you see what he said? He said that "Christus suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate"
He is not stating this as if it was just a freakin' belief held by the Christians, he is saying it as if it actually happened, because it did.
(November 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Tell me why, point to some evidence? Even evidence for a man - I'm already halfway there, after all...I accept that men exist.
That's only half the battle.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Quote:WLC is a good rhetorician, and nothing more.
Craig would not know a fact if it bit him in the ass.
Here he says:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/independe...empty-tomb
Quote:The burial account is part of Mark's source material for the story of Jesus' Passion. This is a very early source which is probably based on eyewitness testimony and dates to within several years of Jesus' crucifixion.
What we have here is not a fact. It is jesus freak wishful thinking. If that is an example of Craig's debate with Carrier then Carrier...who deals in facts....cleaned the fucking floor with this moron.
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RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 24, 2014 at 7:24 pm
(November 24, 2014 at 7:12 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Yet, you haven't made those connections, over other's objections - in this very thread.
Yeah, it is a good thing you said "other's objections", because Lord knows you haven't offered any objections worthwhile.
(November 24, 2014 at 7:12 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Most of your sources refer only to christians. - and nobody has expressed doubt that they exist.
No, most of my sources refer to early Christians that were living their lives based on a man that existed "during the reign of Tiberius and was crucified by a Roman procurator named Pontius Pilate".
And these were their words, not mines.
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