Evangelical Alliance: "We aren't homophobic women-haters"

[dyresand]

I'd like to point out that apologists seem busier forgiving their god than their god is forgiving them.

I'm pretty sure god won't let them into heaven. Since they are going a terrible job.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm not trying to absolve God of anything. What he does is right and just.

Nonsense. If humans did the same thing, you'd be screaming to high heavens about their iniquity.

I thought Christians detested moral relativity?

[Jenny A]

Especially since heaven in the non-fleshy body is supposed to be soooo much better.

Oh except for that embarrassing fact that so many early Christians believed that it is that fleshy body that goes to heaven. Thus the people coming out of their graves, and Jesus' marks of crucifixion after resurrection. And thus the churches aversion to cremation, the fact that the body decomposes not withstanding.

We will have bodies after we die. We don't know if they will be the same flesh as we presently have, but Jesus ate food after his resurrection and walked and talked. We'll be living on the "new earth". I think some christian's aversion to cremation is based on a lack of understanding.

Then why the body missing from the tomb? And the nail holes in the resurrected Jesus?

[Lek]

We will have bodies after we die. We don't know if they will be the same flesh as we presently have, but Jesus ate food after his resurrection and walked and talked. We'll be living on the "new earth". I think some christian's aversion to cremation is based on a lack of understanding.

Then why the body missing from the tomb? And the nail holes in the resurrected Jesus?

We will be physically resurrected, but we will be made perfect. Jesus did bear the marks of the crucifixion. These were an identifier of who he was.

[robvalue]

God can do what he likes, because God says so. And no one can stop him.

Great system, very fair. Might makes right. What an asshole.

[Chad32]

Because no one could ever steal a body from a tomb, and duplicate those kinds of wounds, right?

[Lek]

I'm not trying to absolve God of anything. What he does is right and just.

Nonsense. If humans did the same thing, you'd be screaming to high heavens about their iniquity.

I thought Christians detested moral relativity?

Our morals come from God. Moral relativity is among people. We all are subject to the same ultimate moral authority. If you look at it in one way, God causes us all to die, but we are not allowed to murder anyone.

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Yes, but I'm not sure that one's time in hell will be eternal. The bible does say he died to save us all.

Still tapping around the trinity issue I see.

How am I doing that? I made my statement concerning the Trinity.

[Nope]

Nonsense. If humans did the same thing, you'd be screaming to high heavens about their iniquity.

I thought Christians detested moral relativity?

Our morals come from God. Moral relativity is among people. We all are subject to the same ultimate moral authority. If you look at it in one way, God causes us all to die, but we are not allowed to murder anyone.

---

Still tapping around the trinity issue I see.

How am I doing that? I made my statement concerning the Trinity.

According to the bible, your god doesn't change.

Is this moral to you

Samuel 15

5 Samuel also said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the Lord. 2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Saul lost god's favor because he didn't kill a few sheep and the king Agag

Before you tell us that your god is moral, have you actually read your bible?

[Esquilax]

Wow, you did precisely what I advised you not to do, even after my explanation of why you shouldn't.

The reason hating homosexuality or homosexual behavior is wrong, while hating certain christian tenets is okay, is because the former has no rational justification, while the latter does. In short, I hate specific christian tenets for reasons that are readily demonstrable- the bigotry, hate, violence and oppression that those beliefs can instil is well known, and hence easy to hate- while the reasons you use to justify your hatred of homosexual behavior (that god deemed it a sin) is not readily demonstrable in any respect, and hence not justifiable.

The reasons why you come to your opinions about something matter. In my case, I have good reasons. You do not, until you can demonstrate your god, his authority, that the bible reflects his opinions, and why those opinions should be followed.

So all this comes down to the conclusion that if I hate homosexual behavior that I also have to hate homosexuals, but if you hate christianan behavior, you don't have to hate christians. I disagree, but I'll leave it at that based on what I've already said.

That is so far from what I actually said that I don't even feel the need to respond to it, as there's nothing to rebut. Please read back over what I posted above, as it details precisely the difference between what I believe and what you do. Specifically, pay attention to the last paragraph.

[Jenny A]

Then why the body missing from the tomb? And the nail holes in the resurrected Jesus?

We will be physically resurrected, but we will be made perfect. Jesus did bear the marks of the crucifixion. These were an identifier of who he was.

You're awfully confident for a man with this sort of material to work from:

Not all flesh is alike, but there is one flesh for human beings, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; indeed, star differs from star in glory.

42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the physical, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven.

50 What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality

1 Corinthians 39-54 NRSV

Especially when there are contrasting verses like these:

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Mathew 27:51-53

One sounds pretty spiritual and the other, like Jesus and his nail holes, rather original body fleshy.