Atheists turning to cult behaviour?

[FatAndFaithless]

Hi. from the UK!

I'm afraid that your observations aren't held up by the statistics. As a group, those who claim 'no religion' are less likely to hold positions associated with social or minority oppression. Ergo atheists are less likely to be misogynists, racists, homophobes or bullies than religious people. They're also more likely to be pro-human/civil rights and recent evidence indicates that they may be more charitable than the religious.

You're right to suggest that certain groups of people, when gathered, can generate negative outcomes (Atheism+ is a great & pertinent example of this) however this is not due to their atheism but instead due to their shared values. For example, I find that atheist gun-nuts have far too much in common with right-wing assholes but that's got nothing to do with the atheism and everything to do with the shared values that lead them to gather together in support of guns.

So although your generalisation is wrong, you still have a point because others will & do make similar generalisations. I think that the best the 'atheist community' can do is publically oppose those negative outcomes whenever possible and publicise the positives about atheists as a group therefore reducing the number of people who might also make your generalisation.

Atheism+ is a good example Ben, because it's obviously an 'atheist community' that a lot of people have big issues with. However, we don't say "Atheists are tending towards no-disccusion, heavily censored, tightly-controlled habits that kill dissent and debate". We just say 'that particular atheist community is not somewhere I'd like to participate', and find somewhere else to participate.

[SoFarEast]

Ok, your above posts are written a bit too crudely for me to tell that you don't mean those things

Yes, I apologize for my writing. I'm not able to express myself well enough, or maybe I could respond better to the scrutiny if this was a conversation face to face.

Yes, that's sexist. Which conferences were that and how did this fact (that they are not taken seriously) manifest itself?

The ones I'd been to were get togethers at my uni and some talks in my city. There was little or no interest in the male audience when a woman speaker spoke, they followed up by complimenting her looks, or how "sexy" a woman atheist was. Some harassed these women on and on for their numbers. There was almost no interest in the content of their talks and jokes about their vaginas were common. I know a lot more instances, but I'm not able to remember them right now.

[thesummerqueen]

Hello.

I've observed a growing trend in public interactions and online spaces in the way atheists behave. Bullying women, insulting gays, alienating anyone who doesn't subscribe to nerd culture. Is the lack of humanistic principles in Atheism leading to cult behavior? Or what else explains this?

It may not be a religion, but most atheists behave exactly like members of organized religion. Sorry if this has been brought up before. It's a worrying trend. A lot of late teen, early 20 atheists I've met won't think twice before using 'cunt' or 'faggot', or other such forms merciless insulting.

Sorry if someone has already said this, but I'm hungover from a very excellent Welsh whisky, and don't care about reading all 9 pages.

This isn't a growing trend. It's simply that it SEEMS to be growing because people are being more and more vocal about it, and bringing visibility to it. It's a problem that has existed since internet anonymity allowed any two-bit troll with an internet connection to spout his/her nonsense on the internet.

[Alex K]

Ok, your above posts are written a bit too crudely for me to tell that you don't mean those things

Yes, I apologize for my writing. I'm not able to express myself well enough, or maybe I could respond better to the scrutiny if this was a conversation face to face.

Yes, that's sexist. Which conferences were that and how did this fact (that they are not taken seriously) manifest itself?

The ones I'd been to were get togethers at my uni and some talks in my city. There was little or no interest in the male audience when a woman speaker spoke, they followed up by complimenting her looks, or how "sexy" a woman atheist was. Some harassed these women on and on for their numbers. There was almost no interest in the content of their talks and jokes about their vaginas were common. I know a lot more instances, but I'm not able to remember them right now.

I've heard of such things as well. That's classical sexism in my book, and it is probably not related to atheism. It is a known phenomenon in tech conferences for example. Even Hollywood writers are encouraged not to give too much important dialogue to women characters because audiences "stop paying attention".
Question to you: in which sense should we as atheists do something about that? Who is in a position to do something? As someone attending, one might try to speak up. Organizers?

[SoFarEast]

So although your generalisation is wrong, you still have a point because others will & do make similar generalisations. I think that the best the 'atheist community' can do is publically oppose those negative outcomes whenever possible and publicise the positives about atheists as a group therefore reducing the number of people who might also make your generalisation.

Hello Ben. I was hoping for the same. A public opposition of negative outcomes. Since you're from the UK, living in a state of disbelief might not mean anything extra to you. You don't need to identify with anything else. This might be me making assumptions about the UK, but I think I'm right.

But for some other people it's not that easy. They will attempt to group and follow what someone else called "Pack behaviour". And a public put down would help.

[abaris]

The ones I'd been to were get togethers at my uni and some talks in my city. There was little or no interest in the male audience when a woman speaker spoke, they followed up by complimenting her looks, or how "sexy" a woman atheist was. Some harassed these women on and on for their numbers. There was almost no interest in the content of their talks and jokes about their vaginas were common. I know a lot more instances, but I'm not able to remember them right now.

Sounds more like fraternity jerks to me. In any case, immature people are allowed to call themselves atheists too.

But what gives you the impression, that's what atheists are? Personally I don't go to any kind of meeting and have absolutely no interest in joining some atheist pressure club. Maybe if some interesting presentation with an interesting speaker were to happen, I might change my mind.

But looking at the many gatherings and presentations by well known atheists such as AronRa, Dawkins or Matt Dillahunty, the atmosphere is humorous but not rude or disrespectful against women.

[SoFarEast]

We just say 'that particular atheist community is not somewhere I'd like to participate', and find somewhere else to participate.

Well yes, I could always just go somewhere else. And that's what I have done for now. But it doesn't make the problem go away, and I'm hoping something can be done about it.

[FatAndFaithless]

Sure. If you see a problem like that you'd like to help make it better, but the problems you're identifying aren't to do with atheism, they're due us simply being fallible and sometimes-assholic human beings.

[Alex K]

We just say 'that particular atheist community is not somewhere I'd like to participate', and find somewhere else to participate.

Well yes, I could always just go somewhere else. And that's what I have done for now. But it doesn't make the problem go away, and I'm hoping something can be done about it.

So, in the future, if you bring up these kinds of problems as criticism, it's probably important to clarify what exactly you mean such that atheists who do not or do not wish to identify with any of these existing groups don't shoot at you for misrepresenting them.

[robvalue]

Why didn't you bring up what actually happened 9 pages ago instead of these vague accusations against atheism?

Never mind. If you are for real (and I'm still not totally convinced) then yes, I'm sure we all are disgusted by that kind of behaviour. I'm not sure what else you want us to do though? We're not going to go on a twitter hate campaign against some random name you give us. We can help you lodge a formal complaint or something against them, if you would like to do that.