Why so many "anti-feminists" in the atheist community?

[Dystopia]

I'm just assuming here, but I image if I got into the crime underwolrd, that most of the females WOULD be gold diggers, whores or sluts, and most of the main characters WOULD be male.

Maybe, but since videogames are not supposed to imitate everything about reality (not by 100%) and can influence how we perceive the world it is a form of entertainment there would be nothing wrong in making a cool smart female crimelord with an expertise in martial arts or something like that - Wouldn't it be cool? Just saying, you don't need to go into the same trope all the time. I'm pretty sure of it. Since GTA is not realistic because of how the justice system handles you, or how you can die and revive at the hospital, and because you play as a criminal, would it be bad creating at least one cool character or wife that cared about something other than money? I mean there are criminals with supporting wives and daughters and all of that - If you've watched the series Sons of Anarchy you'll know that criminal organizations are sexist but they still care about women and women have roles to exercise in criminal organizations other than being hookers or gold diggers.

As for them being male-- there's never been a time in history when males haven't formed armies. There have been few historical records from any time which didn't glorify armed conflict and relish in describing the details of said conflict. I think it's unlikely that social norms lasting at least 5,000 years are just cultural artifacts.

Religion is also biologically natural then? And doesn't biology evolve? We behave differently from millions of years ago - Wouldn't it be justified that we are biologically evolving and leaving aside our primitive or wrong instincts?

Also, as a male, I can say that before I had ANY cultural influence, I knew I liked to see naked women. In grade 1, a friend and I found a Playboy magazine in a ditch, and we went freaking bananas. One of the highlights of that year, for sure.

And females like seeing naked men, it's normal if you are straight.

Natural is not necessarily good-- and in the case of male traits, it's often counter-productive. However, when it starts to be relabeled as dysfunction, then there's going to be a pscyhological conflict there. How can we evolve if we're not willing honestly to accept what we are, right here and right now?

No one is labelling that as dysfunction other than retarded people. But saying, for instance, that men rape attractive provocative women just because "that's how men are, boys will be boys" is a psychological and social problem is not inaccurate at all.

[Vosur]

ITT: https://i.imgur.com/QG8d4hP.jpg

[bennyboy]

And females like seeing naked men, it's normal if you are straight.

It's not the same. Women have their OWN unique interfaces with the things that tend to light up their own neural circuitry. Yes, all people are different, but I don't see a lot of guys watching "Lifetime" network with a box of tissues at the ready.

No one is labelling that as dysfunction other than retarded people. But saying, for instance, that men rape attractive provocative women just because "that's how men are, boys will be boys" is a psychological and social problem is not inaccurate at all.

Let's say one guy is in the top 1% of sexually-motivated people, and is also drunk, and by circumstance ends up alone with your provocatively-dressed female. Should he rape her? No, of course not. He's wrong to do it, because we've established that rape is always to be considered wrong. And yet surely a sensible person can see that all the moral correctness in the world is not going to stop the woman from getting raped.

The problem is that while, individually, we can blame a man for not resisting his urges, statistically, the male behavior shows trends that do in fact mean that "boys will be boys." And X% of these boys, in certain circumstances, will commit rape. And no world view or legal system will prevent this, because it's ingrained in the species at a genetic level.

[The Grand Nudger]

Which percentage?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here are some statistics and facts https://www.rainn.org/statistics - There's sources down below.

I was asking specifically for trending numbers, because that will put the issue into context. If those numbers are stable or rising, then of course one can see that there is a reason for pushing heightened awareness of the issue -- one might even be able to construct an argument supporting the use of loaded terms like "rape culture". However, between 1994 and 2010, the incidence of sexual assault against women has dropped over 50%.

In other words, as the country has taken successful steps to address the measure, the rhetoric of some radical feminists has gotten even more shrill. Why is that?

It's not as small as you think off, sometimes simply reading the comment section of a news website is terrible - The case of the porn actress who got hit by the husband (hockey player or something like that) had lots of comments saying she deserved it because she was a slut and all of that.

I don't mean to dismiss the issue, if that is what you're getting at. Women I've known and loved -- plural -- have been victimized by sexual assault and physical abuse.

I'm not interested in Internet commentary on a particular case. Firstly, it's anecdotal, and virtually useless for analysis. Secondly, the sample group is self-selecting. Thirdly, both sports fans and porn fans would seemingly be men with less-egalitarian views about the place of women in society (though I admit that's only a guess, without support).

I'm not saying that this is not an important issue. I'm saying that the radical feminists are overstating their case.

[Dystopia]

I was asking specifically for trending numbers, because that will put the issue into context. If those numbers are stable or rising, then of course one can see that there is a reason for pushing heightened awareness of the issue -- one might even be able to construct an argument supporting the use of loaded terms like "rape culture". However, between 1994 and 2010, the incidence of sexual assault against women has dropped over 50%.

That's excellent, but you have to take into account that logically since 1994 (in this case in America) people's mentality and social values have changed, certain types of rape might have been more acceptable (like marital rape) and nowadays there's lots of support for victims - I'll like to say that thing about rape culture is not about how many women get raped, but about people (men and women) who are raped and see it as a normal part of life that can't be avoided - However simply going to two different countries and comparing rape incidence will tell us that social rules can cause rape - I.E. compare India with a fist world country like Iceland and guess who gets raped more often... I actually dislike the term rape culture because it is too strong, but I admit openly that some people still need a lesson on rape myths, don't you at least agree with this?

In other words, as the country has taken successful steps to address the measure, the rhetoric of some radical feminists has gotten even more shrill. Why is that?

Radical feminists are not representative and it has not gotten worse, you simply hear it more due to media and technology

I'm not interested in Internet commentary on a particular case. Firstly, it's anecdotal, and virtually useless for analysis. Secondly, the sample group is self-selecting. Thirdly, both sports fans and porn fans would seemingly be men with less-egalitarian views about the place of women in society (though I admit that's only a guess, without support).

I like porn and I have an egalitarian view on women, I think that case was more about prejudice against sex workers than liking porn per se.

I'm not saying that this is not an important issue. I'm saying that the radical feminists are overstating their case.

Honestly - Do you support same-sex rights (equal)? If so, then you support the LGBT community I guess - For me, supporting the LGBT community, even if they are gay/trans/lesbian centered is the same as supporting feminism, I support the LGBT because I am pro-gay/trans rights and feminists because I support women's equality - Imagine that in 20 years gays have more rights, but the LGBT has a small vocal minority of people who blame straight people for all the problems - Do you think people should stop being LGBT because of those retarded people? I'm just trying to make my point clear, and not to seem like an anti-male male since that would be profoundly stupid. I support LGBT just like I support feminists, because both of them help those people (women, gays..) and me - Fems fight against men's stereotypes too (I don't fit all manly stereotypes) and gays fight against the word gay being used against straight males like me as a form of insult. So after our conversation would it be that hard for you to simply state you'd happily support a feminist with a rational cause for equality, independtly of the label you place on yourself? Basically anti-feminism, the strongest position against it - Not just indifference but anti-something, is, to me, the same as Christians who are anti-gay and claim gay people are oppressing straights, it just doesn't make sense and it's unlikely straights or males like me will be oppressed in society due to a small faction of the population who probably hold no political or economical strength to oppress me other than a loud mouth

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It's not the same. Women have their OWN unique interfaces with the things that tend to light up their own neural circuitry. Yes, all people are different, but I don't see a lot of guys watching "Lifetime" network with a box of tissues at the ready.

Any evidence with this that doesn't involve social conditioning?

Let's say one guy is in the top 1% of sexually-motivated people, and is also drunk, and by circumstance ends up alone with your provocatively-dressed female. Should he rape her? No, of course not. He's wrong to do it, because we've established that rape is always to be considered wrong. And yet surely a sensible person can see that all the moral correctness in the world is not going to stop the woman from getting raped.

The problem is that while, individually, we can blame a man for not resisting his urges, statistically, the male behavior shows trends that do in fact mean that "boys will be boys." And X% of these boys, in certain circumstances, will commit rape. And no world view or legal system will prevent this, because it's ingrained in the species at a genetic level.

Are you implying that males are unable to control themselves? Honestly you're smarter than that and I feel offended, I'm a male and I love sex - I mean I really do, I have huge tremendous sexual libido I want to have sex all the time and I'd never rape someone, drunk or attractive or provocative or whatever because of my urges - If you what you say really is true, why do women in Islam (Saudi Arabia or India for example) who can't drink and dress covering their bodies get raped so often and it is accepted by society?

Not to mention I've already spoke about the unknown rapist who rapes a drunk girl and mentioned most rapes actually happen with someone the victim knows, sometimes husband or boyfriend, and some rapists get consensual sex but still rape - So it's not as simple as you put it

[dyresand]

Goal of modern day feminists is a female dominated society in which like burger king they get it their way.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And X% of these boys, in certain circumstances, will commit rape. And no world view or legal system will prevent this, because it's ingrained in the species at a genetic level.

Can you support this claim with solid data?

[Nope]

[quote='Blackout' pid='834202' dateline='1420251226']
And females like seeing naked men, it's normal if you are straight.

It's not the same. Women have their OWN unique interfaces with the things that tend to light up their own neural circuitry. Yes, all people are different, but I don't see a lot of guys watching "Lifetime" network with a box of tissues at the ready.

I like men and women's bodies. Naked, good looking people make me happy. I like some porn. I do NOT like Lifetime Network movies. Last time I went to the bathroom, I had a vagina so am I somehow abnormal according to what you just wrote?

[bennyboy]

Which percentage?

Non-zero

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I like men and women's bodies. Naked, good looking people make me happy. I like some porn. I do NOT like Lifetime Network movies. Last time I went to the bathroom, I had a vagina so am I somehow abnormal according to what you just wrote?

lol

Based on my personal field research, if you like porn AS MUCH as I do, then you are on the pointy part of the bell curve as far as females go, and I'm right on the hump for men.

Don't believe me? How often do men willingly view lesbian porn, and consider it a postive experience? Now. . . how often do women willingly view gay porn, and consider it a positive experience?

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And X% of these boys, in certain circumstances, will commit rape. And no world view or legal system will prevent this, because it's ingrained in the species at a genetic level.

Can you support this claim with solid data?

Which part? That alcohol contributes to rape? That some males have a genetic predisposition toward rape? That no law will prevent rape from happening?

I think it's all supportable, but how about you save me the time and specify which part of it you think is false or unreasonably speculative?

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It's not the same. Women have their OWN unique interfaces with the things that tend to light up their own neural circuitry. Yes, all people are different, but I don't see a lot of guys watching "Lifetime" network with a box of tissues at the ready.

Any evidence with this that doesn't involve social conditioning?

Yeah. The ubiquity of misogynist attitudes and behaviors, all over the world, by which feminists are upset. Don't believe me? Fine. Show me a culture where men, on average, respond more strongly to "sensitive" content, like romantic movies, or where women, on average, respond more strongly to violent content, like UFC fighting.

Are you implying that males are unable to control themselves? Honestly you're smarter than that and I feel offended, I'm a male and I love sex - I mean I really do, I have huge tremendous sexual libido I want to have sex all the time and I'd never rape someone, drunk or attractive or provocative or whatever because of my urges - If you what you say really is true, why do women in Islam (Saudi Arabia or India for example) who can't drink and dress covering their bodies get raped so often and it is accepted by society?

Some males did not control themselves. To say that they could have done other than they did is to deny deterministic brain function in support of the philosophical idea of free will. Saying "I exercised my will, and so should that guy have exercised his" is great for getting on a moral high horse. It is not, however, a particularly useful stance in trying to reduce rape.

As for the muslim countries, I think the answer is obvious-- these people are sexually repressed because they are told that all non-reproductive sex, including masturbation and porn, is a violation against Allah. So they get all bottled up and end up exploding.

In my opinion, the best way to reduce rape is to have a sexually liberal society, and in particular legalized prostitution. This acknowledges the natural drives of men, provides them with a safe outlet for their urges, and also provides some protection to the women who want to / need to seek pay for sex.