“The Problem of Evil” in atheism and in Islam

[Losty]

Why did this thread become about breeding ponies and trying to milk a steer :0

[Chili]

These acts are exemplified in taking nourishment, growing, reproducing, moving and perceiving. Since these acts do not belong to the nature of bodies, for this nature is devoid of WILL, they must belong to a principle they have other than bodies. This principle is what is called ‘soul’.

I'm really confused by this statement especially.

Eating and having sex are very much the nature of bodies, castration of a human male results in low sex drive or none at all.
Drugs can reduce appetite or increase it .
A human can override natural urges, like hunger and sex, but I think this is done with the brain, rather than the soul.

No, I have not read the OP but he is right in this. Soul is what we would call RNA as the greater part of the brain also known as TOL.

It is in the TOK that we think we are but really are not.

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Hmn, then I guess we'll just never be able to get anything new, and if we didn't already have a work horse there will never be a workhorse, huh?

-Where did that first workhorse come from, then? Where did all of our agricultural species come from, then? If I don't have any corn already, where am I supposed to get it? If I don't have a tomato already, where am I supposed to get it? If I don't have a potato already, where am I supposed to get it?

Certainly not from mutations ricocheting away.

[The Grand Nudger]

You don't think? I think that's precisely how we got all of them. In fact I know that it is. You have some other explanation I take it, trollposter? Maybe the teosintes thought really hard about turning into corn? The nightshade squeezed it's anus real tight, and plop...a tomato -and- a potato? Something tells me that you don't deserve the effort that was expended in providing you with the food you eat. That something, btw, is you.

[Brian37]

No need to read past "the venue of atheism" in the OP.

The word "atheist" is a position, not a moral code, not a club, not a political party, not a religion, and certainly not a "venue". All "atheist" means is "off" on god claims, nothing more.

And to use the words " In my efforts to escape exhaustive details" in the OP to follow it up with that giant wall of text is a joke. You put "exhaustive superfluous apology" yes, but those "details" were hardly facts.

FYI, Christians also make the argument that this is all a "test" . I find that pretty cruel when their, or your sky hero sit with folded hands while your loved ones die, especially kids in disease crime and war. I have yet to get a good explanation from a believer as to why it is good to "test" a child through torture or death and to have the parents suffer as well as the kid dying.

A test is what you take in high school. A test is what you take in sports to get a position on the team. A test is what you take to get a job. I hardly find human suffering a "test". An unfortunate part of nature yes, but hardly something moral if you are claiming there is a magic security guard who can stop it but does not.

You have not argued anything I have not heard from Christians or Jews. You are simply quoting a different book to make excuses for having an invisible friend.

[Chili]

You don't think? I think that's precisely how we got all of them. In fact I know that it is. You have some other explanation I take it, trollposter? Maybe the teosintes thought really hard about turning into corn? The nightshade squeezed it's anus real tight, and plop...a tomato -and- a potato? Something tells me that you don't deserve the effort that was expended in providing you with the food you eat. That something, btw, is you.

Yes it is called evolution as seen after the fact. And have you ever looked at the early corn that was not sweet as compared with the corn that we eat today? And a 100 bushel per acre, they say?

[Esquilax]

Selective breeding is where desired qualities are identified first. So the ideal exists in the mind of the breeder before he selects the best representation he finds for his breeding program.

And those traits are expressed through specific mutations.

The same is true with plants in which a breeding program often takes place in confined spaces as patent right adds ownership to this. From there seeds are taken and selective often replicated trials are done to find the best performers within.

So, specific mutations are selected and artificially given greater access to the gene pool. How is it that this excludes mutations, again?

So here now we have selection in addition to selective breeding to reach distinction pertaining only to a desired quality, just yet. This so is still far removed from a mutation that has its own non-cause to be.

Mutations can be deliberately selected, that doesn't make them not mutations. The term doesn't attest to the cause of the concept too, just change in genetics.

[Chili]

Selective breeding is where desired qualities are identified first. So the ideal exists in the mind of the breeder before he selects the best representation he finds for his breeding program.

And those traits are expressed through specific mutations.

The same is true with plants in which a breeding program often takes place in confined spaces as patent right adds ownership to this. From there seeds are taken and selective often replicated trials are done to find the best performers within.

So, specific mutations are selected and artificially given greater access to the gene pool. How is it that this excludes mutations, again?

So here now we have selection in addition to selective breeding to reach distinction pertaining only to a desired quality, just yet. This so is still far removed from a mutation that has its own non-cause to be.

Mutations can be deliberately selected, that doesn't make them not mutations. The term doesn't attest to the cause of the concept too, just change in genetics.

For sure not, and that is why red potatoes are a bonus, let's say, and are not the result of a breeding program, as you say. I have no problem with that and do agree that mutations exist, and likely are the reason why different species are formed. This would be outside the domain of God, I agree, if God is limited to the insider of all that is and all that exists, wherefore then I hold that God can be no greater than me for me.

I think where we are different is that I hold the Intelligent Design to exist inside the species and there is what is needed for us to survive and compete to survive in an ever changing socio-bio environment in which we live.

[bennyboy]

I think you mis-typed the OP. It should read:

"The problem of evil Islam."

Je suis Charlie.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes it is called evolution

because it is

as seen after the fact.

irrelevant trollposter.

And have you ever looked at the early corn that was not sweet as compared with the corn that we eat today? And a 100 bushel per acre, they say?

You mean the non SSE-Mutated shit that I wouldn't feed to livestock? No need, we've isolated useful mutations and capitalized.

100bushels an acre? Slackers. 158 on average in 2013. You know how we got those yields? Back in '03 some lovely folks doing science identified the mechanism by which a mutation at a specific gene caused a loss in production of a p-glycoproteins leading to a mutant dwarf form of corn called br2(first recognized some 50 years prior, named after the mutated gene) which, while producing a smaller (but thicker) plant, had noticeably increased yield of crop. Less energy is spent on the plant, so more energy is available for the crop, simply put (the thicker stem might be a double whammy as it allows a plant to move even more water, and the br2 mutation is also involved in moving molecules across the membrane - it's like putting a corns cells in spring loaded shoes, giving them a hit of crack, and clocking their sprint time).

What do you think we did with that?

(-the really ironic bit here, for everyone that isn't swirling the drain, is that we'd considered the dwarf nature of the plants to be an issue for ages, and we tried to selectively breed it out in ignorance of what was actually occurring. In the wild, the dwarf plants can't compete either. Without management plants crowd each other out and basically strangle their neighbors from above - being short is not advantageous to corn, nor is a larger crop, both are deleterious mutations in any environment other than a managed cornfield. We almost missed the train on that one completely)

[IATIA]

I did not get very far through the OP myself. It appears to be just another muslim proselytizing. As to the "Problem of evil", I never saw any validity in that argument. To read the OT it is obvious where the evil came from. What is more evil than the OT god? Serial killer, psycho, genocide, baby killer, etc..