Know a christian by his fruit. How much fruit?

[Norman Humann]

If AIDS put you in a place to accept eternal life, how is it a bad thing? AIDS is not even an automatic death sentence anymore. So how is wanting to share a struggle that will ensure an eternity of Happiness a bad thing?

Well, eternal life is questionable and the awfulness of wishing someone AIDS is not.

[Drich]

For that we need to look at Gal 5:22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things.

These are the Spiritual Fruit as defined by Scripture.

If there was an actual holy spirit we would expect that Christians would, for the most part, be more loving, peaceful, kind, good, gentle, good and have more self control just like the bible verse you quoted. That does not happen. Christians do not exhibit these traits to a higher degree than nonChristians.

You have assured us that you are a Christian, Drich but I don't see any proof that you are more gentle or patient, for example, than anyone else.

You have no point of reference in which to draw that conclusion.

In order for you to say that have to have known me before I became a Christian. In truth I went for an unforgiving (burn your house down) rage monster to more of a burn a bag of dog doo on your porch anger monster.

Plus you need to seriously include the enviroment you are judging me in as well. Here I have 15 to 20 different people trying to bring out the worst in me for what 3 years now? And what's the worst I've said? F-U? I'm shaking the dust from my feet?

I am far and way from being complete. but I am pointed in the right direction.

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I think any sort of moral conversation is absolutely worthless with Drich. The dude has literally said slavery is okay.

No I said Soceity says slavery is OK if you simply rename it.

What that phrase means is you are hypocrits in the worst way if you slavery is bad yet condone it/benefit from it under a different name.

3rd grade version: (You are the monsters that allow slavery the only condition you have is if you call it by a different name)

Do you understand what I am saying yet?

---

If AIDS put you in a place to accept eternal life, how is it a bad thing? AIDS is not even an automatic death sentence anymore. So how is wanting to share a struggle that will ensure an eternity of Happiness a bad thing?

Is everyone short sighted?

Eternity is a whole lot longer than the 50 years you may have left here. So why not invest this fifty to put you in a position to benfit eternally?

---

If AIDS put you in a place to accept eternal life, how is it a bad thing? AIDS is not even an automatic death sentence anymore. So how is wanting to share a struggle that will ensure an eternity of Happiness a bad thing?

Well, eternal life is questionable and the awfulness of wishing someone AIDS is not.

It wasn't a wish. It was an invitation for God to do whatever it took, (to give you the proof you need to make eternity not questionable) even if it meant something like AIDS or Cancer.

[Nope]

When did you become a Christian, Drich? I thought you were a youth minister in high school and that is how you met your wife

[Norman Humann]

Well, eternal life is questionable and the awfulness of wishing someone AIDS is not.

It wasn't a wish. It was an invitation for God to do whatever it took, (to give you the proof you need to make eternity not questionable) even if it meant something like AIDS or Cancer.

It's still horrible that you're OK with god giving people AIDS or cancer. And how exactly is that going to PROVE eternal life? And couldn't he do that in some other way? Less cruel? I mean, he's supposed to be merciful and kind and forgiving. You'd think he'd come up with better ways of convincing people than making them terminally ill. Like, you know... talking, maybe?

[Esquilax]

Actually it does advocate slavery and murder but only if you change the names...

Migrant worker/ sweat shop labor, Abortion/Terrorist.

No, it doesn't: certain factions of society might benefit from sweat shop labor, but that doesn't mean that morality as a whole does. This is just another one of those desperate equivocations you make to try and tar everyone with your own moral inadequacies, and I'm sorry but it's just not going to work. As regards abortion, that's little more than an assertion you make, not backed up by the facts; shrill christian rhetoric aside, there's little there to murder.

Your 'morality' is based off what one 'feels' justified in doing. Which means anything and everything can be on the table.

My morality is based on a rational consideration of the consequences of my actions, tempered by empathy for what I am fully capable of recognizing are fellow human beings, and how dare you presume to speak for what my moral system is, instead of just asking me?

If AIDS put you in a place to accept eternal life, how is it a bad thing?

As opposed to not getting AIDS at all? Hmm, lemme just wrack my fucking brains for an answer to that eternal puzzle.

Besides, you could just, you know, present evidence for your position, that'd put me in a place to accept eternal life too. Instead, you just hope that something bad will happen to me, so I'd be in such an emotionally vulnerable position that I'd accept anything that might get me out of it, no matter how irrational.

The fact that the former never even seems to occur to you, while you find the latter perfectly acceptable, speaks volumes of the position you hold.

AIDS is not even an automatic death sentence anymore. So how is wanting to share a struggle that will ensure an eternity of Happiness a bad thing?

Oh, I forgot that only things that kill you are bad things. My mistake.

I'm just stunned that, for all your talk of fruits, kindness and so on, you find such a malevolent thought to be appealing, and you're apparently okay that someone's conversion would be rooted in sorrow and desperation, just so long as they just stop disagreeing with you. To be clear, a normal person would pray for me to receive knowledge, to be guided to the right path gently or via your argumentation. You, on the other hand, pray that bad things befall me until I'm so beaten down that I'll even reach out to a pretend helping hand.

If your fruits are how we should know you, then the fact that you apparently can't even conceive of good fruits tells us a whole damn lot, doesn't it?

[Drich]

When did you become a Christian, Drich? I thought you were a youth minister in high school and that is how you met your wife

I met her in a collage age singles ministry I was doing in from 98-01 I think I converted in 94/95 after highschool.

---

It wasn't a wish. It was an invitation for God to do whatever it took, (to give you the proof you need to make eternity not questionable) even if it meant something like AIDS or Cancer.

It's still horrible that you're OK with god giving people AIDS or cancer. And how exactly is that going to PROVE eternal life? And couldn't he do that in some other way? Less cruel? I mean, he's supposed to be merciful and kind and forgiving. You'd think he'd come up with better ways of convincing people than making them terminally ill. Like, you know... talking, maybe?

God can only be heard by the humble. AIDS and Cancer will Humble just about anyone on the planet. Could God reach out yes, but why would He, if youre not humble enough to meet Him on his terms?

[robvalue]

Sorry, AIDS is god's way of giving proof of something? That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. If he were real, the only thing it proves is that he is evil. Which is not news.

[Mister Agenda]

"By their fruits shall ye know them" (KJV) is one of the smartest things this Jesus guy is supposed to have said.

[Davka]

Your 'morality' is based off what one 'feels' justified in doing. Which means anything and everything can be on the table.

Ditto for Christian "morality." The only difference is that Christians try to reverse-engineer the Bible to justify what they already 'feel' to be justifiable.

So we see a pattern of Christian 'morality' changing throughout the centuries, shifting to accommodate changing social norms, yet always sanctimoniously claiming God's approval on their actions.

100 years ago divorce was immoral, and divorced people were not welcome in church. No Pastor or Priest would knowingly perform a wedding in which one of the participants had been previous married and then divorced.

Not too long before that, they wouldn't perform a marriage if the bride was not a virgin.

And if you ask Christians about this today, they tell you with a straight face that those people were interpreting the Bible wrong, but today we magically have it right.

[Esquilax]

God can only be heard by the humble. AIDS and Cancer will Humble just about anyone on the planet. Could God reach out yes, but why would He, if youre not humble enough to meet Him on his terms?

Commandment number one: "I'm the best god, don't ever treat any other god as good as you treat me!"

Drich's theology: "God wants you to be humble! Why won't you be humble for god?"

Methinks I sense a hypocrite in Drich's theological outlook.