Evidence God Exists

[Godscreated]

Do you? Matthew WROTE it down, asshole. That makes it WRITTEN. Your bible is fucked up.


Sorry, tacky...that's just pure apologetic bullshit.

"Matthew" ( who never existed either ) has your godboy going to a town which did not exist in order to fulfill a "prophecy" which does not exist. Just how much bullshit are you willing to swallow?

The prophecy was not wriiten in the OT it was a spoken prophcey handed down through the generations, I thought personal attacks were not allowed, guess christians do not have the same rights as nonbelievers.

Actually, the personal attack rule is a little more refined than that. Tack can handle his own and will decide whether he finds it offensive or not. The conversation would become far less convoluted if you focused on Min's point and not his attitude. That being said, we try to treat believers and atheists the same way here. You are not privy to personal messages and any warnings dealt out here unless they are dealt to you, so please do not make assumptions that other, newer members could misconstrue as fact.

I have been answering his statements and I do not remember ever saying anything about personal attacks before, it is his attacks that get into the way of a discussion, but I guess I'LL JUST HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW.

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Ever enter your mind that not all scripture made it's way in written form to the time of Jesus. No, I bet it did not that could only happen to the history that you like and defend and Herod died in 1BC.

Wait, Min believes in history that is scripture that didn't make its way to the time of Jesus?

If I am interpreting this correctly, you are saying that some of what is in the bible is oral history and that Min finds that unacceptable, unless it pertains to "his" version of history. Now, assuming that I am reading that correctly, I have to say that what history scholars get from oral histories that are eventually written down is relevant information. For example, say a historian from ancient times wrote "and then Hades sent up flames from the bowels of the Earth." Historians would date the information, based on the writer or dating of the material on which the history is written and make a logical guess that it probably refers to a volcanic eruption and a few more logical guesses regarded when and for how long the information has been passed on. Geologists would be able to give them an idea of when volcanoes erupted in the area and there you have history. Notice that Hades is disregarded because Hades is a mythical god created by people who did not understand volcanoes and other perfectly natural features of the Earth. Christians would dismiss Hades as well. The problem is that they won't do the same for "their" god. Min is eliminating your god from the equation because he/she should have went the way of Hades hundreds of years ago.

Disclaimer: I am aware that Hades is the god of the Underworld. Not entirely sure who they attributed volcanoes to.

Yes atheist wish He had gone the way of the false gods, ever wonder why He has not, could be He is real. What I said was that some oral scripture was never written down or that some written scripture that was written down was lost over time and survived to the time of Jesus as oral scripture and then the NT writters wrote it down. I guess though since Min does not accept scripture as part of history, scripture does not count, even though it is some of the oldest surviving writtings.

[Shell B]

I have been answering his statements and I do not remember ever saying anything about personal attacks before, it is his attacks that get into the way of a discussion, but I guess I'LL JUST HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW.

GC, please feel free to review the rules, if you must. Go ahead and report a post if it truly offends you or breaks the rules here. That is what the report function is for. You may want to review http://atheistforums.org/thread-3469.html while you are at it BECAUSE TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING AND RUDE.

I did not say that you haven't been answering his statements or that you mentioned personal attacks before. I was speaking about the post above specifically. If there is a flow that is there for a good reason, it is best to go with it.

[The Grand Nudger]

That he hasn't gone the way of the "false gods"? I'm sorry, I thought he had. No worries, give it time, according to the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Here in the US, Atheists have that honor.

(lol, you guys will have to excuse me for the atheism/religion comp..just speaking a language the believer would understand)

[Shell B]

Yes atheist wish He had gone the way of the false gods, ever wonder why He has not, could be He is real. What I said was that some oral scripture was never written down or that some written scripture that was written down was lost over time and survived to the time of Jesus as oral scripture and then the NT writters wrote it down. I guess though since Min does not accept scripture as part of history, scripture does not count, even though it is some of the oldest surviving writtings.

I didn't say atheists wish that. I do not wonder why "he" has not. I just figure it is similar to every other fake ass god that some people clung to and others wanted to get rid of. Your god actually hasn't been around as long as others, so don't try to prove "his" existence with that argument, dude.

[Minimalist]

I'll apologize, Shel.


G-C - I'm truly sorry that you are a flaming asshole. However you have more control over that than I. You could stop being one any time you wish.


Now, the last prophet ( I really hate having to explain your own stupid shit to you ) was "Malachi" (probably as phony as all the rest of it) who supposedly lived at the end of the 5th century BC which puts him 500 years ahead of your godboy. Why is it that no one...except modern xtian apologists who are desperately trying to save a worthless story in a worthless book are the only ones who speak of a "spoken" record along with the obvious written record?

You are pulling stuff out of your ass, as Till pointed out in his essay far more effectively than I could ever do, in an effort to salvage your bullshit stories and you are failing miserably.

[Faith No More]

Yes atheist wish He had gone the way of the false gods, ever wonder why He has not, could be He is real.

Actually, it's far more likely that desperate, delusional people won't let go of their ancient beliefs.

[Godscreated]

Yes atheist wish He had gone the way of the false gods, ever wonder why He has not, could be He is real. What I said was that some oral scripture was never written down or that some written scripture that was written down was lost over time and survived to the time of Jesus as oral scripture and then the NT writters wrote it down. I guess though since Min does not accept scripture as part of history, scripture does not count, even though it is some of the oldest surviving writtings.

I didn't say atheists wish that. I do not wonder why "he" has not. I just figure it is similar to every other fake ass god that some people clung to and others wanted to get rid of. Your god actually hasn't been around as long as others, so don't try to prove "his" existence with that argument, dude.

The creator of the universe, puts Him ahead of everything.

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That he hasn't gone the way of the "false gods"? I'm sorry, I thought he had. No worries, give it time, according to the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Here in the US, Atheists have that honor.

(lol, you guys will have to excuse me for the atheism/religion comp..just speaking a language the believer would understand)

He's been here from the beginning, He is from everlasting to everlasting, that's a long time to go dude, you will not see what you think is the end. You are saying that atheism is a religion, strange I bet no one else believes that. GBWR accepts most anything that is ridiculous.

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I'll apologize, Shel.


G-C - I'm truly sorry that you are a flaming asshole. However you have more control over that than I. You could stop being one any time you wish.


Now, the last prophet ( I really hate having to explain your own stupid shit to you ) was "Malachi" (probably as phony as all the rest of it) who supposedly lived at the end of the 5th century BC which puts him 500 years ahead of your godboy. Why is it that no one...except modern xtian apologists who are desperately trying to save a worthless story in a worthless book are the only ones who speak of a "spoken" record along with the obvious written record?

You are pulling stuff out of your ass, as Till pointed out in his essay far more effectively than I could ever do, in an effort to salvage your bullshit stories and you are failing miserably.

What does Malachi who was the last OT prophet have to do with oral history. You do not seem to have explained a thing here Min.

[The Grand Nudger]

Found a website for you GC, you may enjoy it.

http://www.pocm.info/getting_started_pocm.html (link is an obvious gateway to hell, so put on your warding talisman and chose the proper incantations)

Perhaps the false gods never left?

[Faith No More]

Perhaps the false gods never left?

Did they, dare I say it, evolve?

[The Grand Nudger]

It's just too much to even consider isn't it. The idea that people are either too lazy, or too busy to invent a religion entirely out of nothing, and instead rely on the religious concepts and narratives of those that immediately precede or surround them. Perish the thought. Our ancestors are also apparently too ignorant to write fiction. To top it off, we know for fact, that no one ever fabricated anything for personal gain, least of all the religious.

In all seriousness, if anyone had a reason to research the concepts found in the NT, the traditions that led to what we call christianity, it would be christians. There is an immense body of knowledge on the subject there for the taking if one were so inclined. Some of these narratives have value regardless of the divinity of christ. Insisting that every story be a prop, or somehow proof of a single concept robs them of the greater value they have as metaphor. Aesop's fables have value even if there were no Aesop (which may be the case). Similarly ( to me) the NT has value even if there were no christ. Why is it that I, as an atheist can see this, and yet believers somehow feel the worth of the NT is entirely dependant upon the historical accuracy of jesus' existence?

GC, wanna field that one for me? If there were no christ, would the NT have any value? What is the value (if any) of the NT in the absence of christ?