Challenge regarding Christian morality

[KevinM1]

The mental gymnastics are incredible.

However, unlike Kerri Strug, they can never stick the landing.

...that's right, I'm old.

[robvalue]

I have no idea who that is but it was funny anyway

[KevinM1]

I have no idea who that is but it was funny anyway

...bah, humbug!

[Whateverist]

I could never distinguish between Christian morality and pure desperation to save one's own soul at any cost.

[robvalue]

If people would just accept that souls are metaphorical only, they could stop worrying about it.

They're not real people. It's all in your mind. A non existent being is holding a non existent part of you hostage. It's all a big bluff, and the church is preying on your fear of calling it. Do I look the slightest bit scared of all the things that might happen to my soul after I die?

No, because there is no soul and there's nowhere for it to go, outside of fantasy story books.

[Mudhammam]

Let's not kid ourselves. Christian morality is Stoicism coupled with the imagination of a six year old.

[robvalue]

*Uses google discretely*

Yeah, yeah. I see what you mean

Whenever I'm trying to have a serious discussion with someone and I say that people don't have souls, they often accuse me of being "cold hearted" like my scientific evaluation has just caused these souls to evaporate or something. I get it... we have "souls", metaphorically. But I'm no less me, you're no less you, if I scientifically analyze the actual reality of the situation.

[Mudhammam]

*Uses google discretely*

Yeah, yeah. I see what you mean

Whenever I'm trying to have a serious discussion with someone and I say that people don't have souls, they often accuse me of being "cold hearted" like my scientific evaluation has just caused these souls to evaporate or something. I get it... we have "souls", metaphorically. But I'm no less me, you're no less you, if I scientifically analyze the actual reality of the situation.

Exactly. It's stupefying the way theists thrown around terms as if any and everyone should know exactly what is to be meant by them outside of any specific context related to actual situations ("free will," "soul," "necessarily existing prime mover"). I take "soul" to simply mean "self" or "mind," these of course being blanket terms for phenomena that have nothing to do with ghoulish entities or mechanisms that somehow always seem to be used as solutions to every question a person could have...as has been the case since man first figured out he could use signs to convey thoughts.

[RobbyPants]

I could never distinguish between Christian morality and pure desperation to save one's own soul at any cost.

Oh, well that's not their motivation because they say it's not! They're good people because they're good people, and it's merely coincidental that Jesus just so happens to be waving the biggest carrot and stick ever conceived in front of their face, and they just to happen to be behaving in a way that is compatible with getting that carrot. Also, ignore all that talk about looking forward to heaven and being heaven-bound; that's not their motivation. It's just a consolation prize.

They're just good people; however, they will totally tell nonbelievers about this carrot and stick in an attempt to get them to believe too. Which... makes the non-believer into a good person who's just doing good things cuz they're good people, too?

[Whateverist]

I'm more used to hearing from xtians who are happy to admit to being sinners. We all are and its our own fault because the first of our kind failed the serpent test and we inherited that failure and the resulting corruption of our nature. But don't despair. It's going to be okay because 2000 years ago God became man so that he could swallow up all that sin and take it with him to the grave.

Anyone who believes that this is so gets the big carrot and avoids the big stick. Well at least so long as God decides to extend his grace to you. Apparently you can't win this grace through good acts either; so really, morality doesn't enter into it. The idea is that so long as you love God above all else and give yourself over to His will then his divine nature will motivate you to do good.

Keep in mind however that God works in strange and wonderful ways whose logic is beyond our ken. You may be called on to lock your young children into your car and roll it into a lake in order to send them on ahead of you to be with God. Perhaps he'll test you by calling on you to seek divine intervention for your child's life threatening illness. You might even be called on to shoot an abortion doctor. Whatever His plan may be, what matters is that you leave off being willful and seek to do His will instead. But remember it isn't what you do which will decide the stick/carrot outcome. Rather it is abandoning ownership of your actions by turning it all over to the lord that will keep you out of hell and send you on to heaven.

Make sense? Yeah, me neither.