Posts: 296
Threads: 64
Joined: January 14, 2015
Reputation:
5
Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 2:48 pm
Hey guys. I know I've chosen to post this question, but how do I know if whether or not I have been preprogrammed to post this? It's not like I can go back in time to rethink my decision and choose another option. Does free will actually exist? Are all our actions just a product of time? Is there a way to actually test if whether or not we have free will? Thanks a bunch.
This is probably a stereotypical question (maybe even viewed as dumb by some), however I want to know what your thoughts are on the subject anyway.
If pinkie pie isn't real, then how do you explain the existence of ponies, huh? If ponies are real, then that's proof that Pinkie Pie is real. Checkmate, christians! 
_______________________________
Let's stop fighting and and start smiling! This is our one and only life to live... let's be friends and live it with smiles! 
-- Book of Pinkie Pie 7:3
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 2:52 pm
Can you try to offer a more precise definition of the concept of free will you have in mind?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 296
Threads: 64
Joined: January 14, 2015
Reputation:
5
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 3:06 pm
free will
noun
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion
If pinkie pie isn't real, then how do you explain the existence of ponies, huh? If ponies are real, then that's proof that Pinkie Pie is real. Checkmate, christians!
_______________________________
Let's stop fighting and and start smiling! This is our one and only life to live... let's be friends and live it with smiles!
-- Book of Pinkie Pie 7:3
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 3:22 pm
What about an action that is constrained through choice but a choice is still available? In other words, if I'm told to pick a letter but I can only pick A, B, or C, is that choice free? How does that fall into your definition of free will?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 67325
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 3:30 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 3:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Further complication, suppose that I can pick letter a, b, or c - but factors can be identified which allow someone to predict, to varying degrees of accuracy, which I will "choose"? Say...for example, I have a pathological fear of the letter A, and it's wednesday... I never pick C on wednesdays? Is my picking B, out of the already limited options available, "free will"?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8731
Threads: 425
Joined: October 7, 2014
Reputation:
37
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 3:39 pm
This should answer that question for you.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe>
Posts: 4659
Threads: 123
Joined: June 27, 2014
Reputation:
40
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 3:50 pm
I am more inclined to think we don't have free will. The more I realize how biological, psychological, social, cultural, moral, economical, philosophical, political, ethical and political limitations we inherently have from birth I am more prone to think that at best, we might have a tiny margin of decision - And that is saying much.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 26, 2015 at 5:09 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 5:09 pm by Alex K.)
(January 26, 2015 at 3:06 pm)IanHulett Wrote: free will
noun
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion
That doesn't go deep enough.
The question obviously must be how it is decided what it is I want to do.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 27, 2015 at 12:17 am
(January 26, 2015 at 2:48 pm)IanHulett Wrote: Hey guys. I know I've chosen to post this question, but how do I know if whether or not I have been preprogrammed to post this? It's not like I can go back in time to rethink my decision and choose another option. Does free will actually exist? Are all our actions just a product of time? Is there a way to actually test if whether or not we have free will? Thanks a bunch.
This is probably a stereotypical question (maybe even viewed as dumb by some), however I want to know what your thoughts are on the subject anyway.
Since free will on this site is exclusively discussed with religion in mind I'll address it that way. Just because a moral system dictates the way one should act doesn't mean one has to responded to it. If one is commanded to be a suicide bomber, commanding one first of all says the one has a choice, the choice can be accepted or rejected. God commands through the scriptures one should not practice homosexual acts, that doesn't mean there are no homosexuals, to the contrary, a commandment wouldn't be necessary if there were none. One has the right to accept this command or reject it. The law of this country and the law in scriptures say do not murder, one has the choice to or not murder, people are not destined to be murders, if they were why would there be a command not to murder. If we knew people were predestined to murder or not there would be no need for the command. Commandments and law says free will exists.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?
January 27, 2015 at 4:34 am
(This post was last modified: January 27, 2015 at 4:46 am by robvalue.)
I think "free will" is such a slippery term as to be as useless. To me it implies some sort of process going on in "us" which is seperate from the pure physics involved. But I feel there is no "us" apart from the physics.
(January 26, 2015 at 3:39 pm)dyresand Wrote: This should answer that question for you.
This is a very good and punchy video. I'd like to add a few thoughts:
What he said about Einstein, that he thought predetermined crimes should still be punished, was stupid. I don't know if he is quoting correctly here or not. But such a position makes no sense; if we accept determinism, there is no "should". This scenario implies we have one agent with free will deciding whether or nor to punish another agent who has no free will.
With regard to QM, I'm only just learning about it, and it is scary as fuck. I would however be cautious about saying that QM shows things are truly unpredictable. That may well be the case, but I have a voice of caution telling me that we may just not have the full picture. So I would be more comfortable saying that QM appears to show us that there is randomness. Anyone can feel free to kick my arse on that point, as I'm very ignorant so far on the subject.
This is where the slipperiness comes in. Is a bunch of random outcomes a "choice"? Doesn't sound much like one to me. Sounds like we're at the mercy of physics, just in a random way.
|
