So did Atheism + bite the dust?

[Neo-Scholastic]

I still don't understand what the problem is with being social justice warrior, after all, isn't social justice a good thing? I'm all for social justice and I've talked about it here in AF - How I think some people have it easier than others. Can someone explain me?

In concept social justice is at odds with just plain ole justice. Justice is about equality of individuals before the law irrespective of social status, title, or identity. Social justice is about using the force of law to achieve the political advantage of one group over another.

It sounds like a noble idea but it isn't. It subverts the very thing it claims to promote.

[Dystopia]

Then why the hell are people worrying about it if these people are just on tumblr (I don't use social networks) and may not even believe what they say?

TheMessiah, you should be careful when you bring up videos as "proof", the last video is pretty good, but thunderf00t is certainly not a good example to talk about feminism since his position is completely biased and he attacks anything that is "feminist", he is the opposite of rebecca watson

Chad you speak as if there was complete equality between individuals irrespective of social status, race, identity, and so one, which clearly there isn't.

[TheMessiah]

Then why the hell are people worrying about it if these people are just on tumblr (I don't use social networks) and may not even believe what they say?

TheMessiah, you should be careful when you bring up videos as "proof", the last video is pretty good, but thunderf00t is certainly not a good example to talk about feminism since his position is completely biased and he attacks anything that is "feminist", he is the opposite of rebecca watson

Chad you speak as if there was complete equality between individuals irrespective of social status, race, identity, and so one, which clearly there isn't.

I used the link Cato gave on 'Atheism +' for proof, the videos offered evidence though, not proof per-se but the link certainly was.

Because believe it or not, they're powerful. The media often side with them and they nearly ruined the image of the Atheist community with their intolerance, I remember when some of my friends were like ''What does this have to do with Atheism?'', thankfully they slowly moved away from the Atheist community but believe you me, these people will try to force themselves into different communities --- they ruined Occupy Wall Street and are trying to assert their policy on the gaming community.

[Dystopia]

I don't see how they are impacting social communities that much, as far as I know they have their own groups but I don't see a lot of people in real life actually proposing ideas like that. Far-left social justice isn't taken seriously in society, it really isn't and people like that are ridiculed many times. At least on reddit I have not seen anyone like that; quite the opposite, most people seem to dislike "extremisms"

I respectfully disagree that those people are powerful. Powerful would mean having actual power, i.e. Political power, lots of money/wealth, controlling the media and means of production - That's power ---> Making people angry because of your biased opinion is not power

[robvalue]

The thing about atheism is that no one can be an authority figure for it, and no atheists are supporting what any other atheists may be doing, by default. It's so different to any group where you choose to be in it and to validate it's values, because it doesn't have any.

[Regina]

I think there's an important distinction to make.

Genuine social justice is a good thing, that is to say social justice that is actually put into practice in the real world, actually dealing with racism, homophobia etc etc etc.

I can understand the backlash the tumblrites get though. These are teens with poor social skills who just want to play an online shouting match. As I've said before, it's a glorified pissing contest of "I've had it more tragic than you" that any sensible adult shouldn't take seriously. That's the problem. Social justice has been hijacked by people who want to play minority top trumps and bitch about petty non-issues like "cultural appropriation", rather than dealing with real nasty shit that happens in their everyday life.

There is some victim mentality to it as well, wallowing in self-pity. I know these are people who have experienced a hard time due to sexism, homophobia etc etc. There has to come a point though where you stop blaming everything on other people, pick yourself up, and just do what you can to better your circumstances. As a gay man I had to learn that myself.

With that being said, I can agree I don't like people throwing "feminism" around like it's a dirty word, or making parodies of it with terms like "feminazi".

[Dystopia]

I think there's an important distinction to make.

Genuine social justice is a good thing, that is to say social justice that is actually put into practice in the real world, actually dealing with racism, homophobia etc etc etc.

I can understand the backlash the tumblrites get though. These are teens with poor social skills who just want to play an online shouting match. As I've said before, it's a glorified pissing contest of "I've had it more tragic than you" that any sensible adult shouldn't take seriously. That's the problem. Social justice has been hijacked by people who want to play minority top trumps and bitch about petty non-issues like "cultural appropriation", rather than dealing with real nasty shit that happens in their everyday life.

There is some victim mentality to it as well, wallowing in self-pity. I know these are people who have experienced a hard time due to sexism, homophobia etc etc. There has to come a point though where you stop blaming everything on other people, pick yourself up, and just do what you can to better your circumstances. As a gay man I had to learn that myself.

With that being said, I can agree I don't like people throwing "feminism" around like it's a dirty word, or making parodies of it with terms like "feminazi".

Can I double kudos? I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I'm a white cis straight man and I'm all for social justice - Yes, I still think being white is easier, being straight is still "normal" and expected, being a man still has the upsides of gender roles and social expectations, etc. - But engaging in rational debate is much more profitable than simply saying "OH YOU ARE A BIGOT I HATE YOU!". As a white man, I don't like it when these people dismiss my experiences (like bullying, depression or anxiety) based on the fact that I'm not a minority and therefore I can't have it hard.

Usually I don't really care much for other groups, it is their group, their rules, their options - Just don't expect to force others into your ideas. But... From the moment you bring anti-capitalism, I have a problem with you, fuck you and fuck your non-existent economics degree.

[abaris]

It seems so --- unless I'm mistaken, a lot of Feminazi Social Justice Warriors tried to hijack the Atheist community and it got ugly; but it seems that it's gone now and things reverted to the way they were.

Is it?

Oh well. Your Rush Limbough attitude and choice of wording doesn't exactly make you case. If there even is one.

Not gonna take this seriously.

[KevinM1]

Mini rant. Skip if you're not interested.

---

This whole thing is idiotic. I can only speak on the gamer side of things since I am a gamer, but GamerGate, at the least, was and remains bullshit.

From what I've seen, the pejorative SJW label gets thrown around way, way too much. It's not just given to knee-jerk reactionaries who couldn't actually express a cogent thought if they were paid to, but to anyone who dares raise their voice in opposition to other people simply being assholes. It's a term designed to stop discussion and to paint someone as the enemy. "Oh, they're just a SJW. You can ignore/harass/threaten them." It's the calling card of the idiot, and anyone who actually uses the term in a serious manner should probably stop and reevaluate themselves.

This isn't to say there aren't knee-jerk reactionaries who think everyone is one flavor of bigot or another. It's just that they should be dealt with on a case by case basis, if they're even dealt with at all. In my experience, letting the crazies be crazy over there, by themselves is far more beneficial than engaging them in a verbal conflict.

As far as gaming being under threat by these people, that's bullshit plain and simple. If gamers want their hobby to be treated seriously - to be treated as art as so many claim it is - then it's fair game for critique on those levels. That includes feminist critique. And, despite gaming slowly becoming more inclusive across the board, it is still overwhelmingly misogynistic. It's still overwhelmingly whitewashed. It still has miles to go in including and fairly depicting LGBT people. That doesn't mean games are bad and that you should feel bad, but that you should be aware of what the game is saying - both explicitly and implicitly.

The rest of GamerGate is just idiots not understanding how the media works. They saw headlines like "Gaming/Gamers is/are dead" as an actual fact or threat instead of the hyperbolic hooks they actually were. And even funnier, gaming as a lot of gamers knew it is dead. Far more women and older people are playing than ever before. Gaming 'dies' every 10-15 years. I know. I've seen it. First, it was the arcades as home PCs became popular and affordable. Then PC gaming as consoles overtook them, and were far easier to deal with. Then, it was the advent of the cool gamer - the frat boys playing Halo and Madden and the decline of action/adventure/role-playing games. Now? It's older casual gamers almost split equally between the sexes. And, it's not like those previous generations are completely gone. PC gaming, for example, has made a huge comeback thanks to Steam and modern plug-and-play/autodetect technology.

But, yeah... whenever I hear "SJWs are ruining it (whatever it may be) for everyone else," my immediate reaction is that the person complaining was acting like a dickhead and didn't like being called out on it. It may not be a fair first impression, but after dealing with GamerGate people, that's where I go.

---

[Silver]

Social Justice Warriors claim to be morally superior and claim to fight for Social Justice, yet they harass people who disagree because they believe the ends justify the means.

Sometimes, in a world where one's rational voice is almost never heard over the irrational politics of the elite, it is quite justifiable to make the ends meet the means. When simply roaring does nothing to enact change, one must bring out the claws.