It is never Ok, OP/ED

[wiploc]

Yeah, that first definition is terrible.

That definition has to be in any dictionary. It may be losing ground, but it is still the most common usage.

The second one is either misleading or redundant depending on how you interpret it.

I don't mind a little redundancy for clarity's sake. If we interpret it as redundant, it says, "Atheism is disbelieving---that is to say not believing---in gods." I don't see that as objectionable.

If we use the other interpretation, then the definition says, "Atheism includes both strong atheism (disbelieving in gods) and weak atheism (merely not believing in gods). Again, I don't see how that can be objectionable.

[robvalue]

Yeah, I guess you're right. If it covers more bases, that's not a bad thing.

It's such a subtle concept that the slightest change in wording makes all the difference. You get someone with no idea with a hammer and chisel and it won't be pretty.

[wiploc]

You get someone with no idea with a hammer and chisel and it won't be pretty.

I always have fun with it. If they say an atheist, per whichever dictionary they cite, has to deny or disbelieve, then then I look up "deny" and "disbelieve" in that same dictionary. I've never had that work out well for the other side.

[Spooky]

Most people don't really understand violence. So when they say "militant" or any variation, they should probably be ignored. Sorry for your headache op.

[jesus_wept]

How weasely can you get (no disrespect to weasels)? Trying to win an argument with a dictionary sideswipe. Telling you what you really believe.

A Webster's Strawman. Such utter desperation. Where is there God, that they need to go sniffing around to try and twist the meanings of every word to try and feel like they "win". Man!

I did say I was talking about fundies and apologists, the sort of people who think William Lane Craig and Ken Ham are good debaters, so I think their weaselyness and underhand tactics go without saying.

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the doctrine or belief that there is no God. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/atheism

You gave the first definition from dictionary.com, and it's certainly a good definition; that's a common usage.

Dictionary.com follows up that first definition with a second definition quite similar to the one from the OeD: "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings."

So any theist arguing that dictionary.com provides the single definition of "atheism" should be made to face the fact that dictionary.com itself offers the alternative definition that you and I prefer.

I didnt say the definition wasn't a common usage, especially amongst fundies and apologists, i said the dictionary was crap and appeared to be tailor made for fundies and apologists. Which I still stand by.

And I'm pleased you told me to tell them that they're cherry picking from it too. I'd have never thought of that one.