Proof of God

[LostLocke]

A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths.”

― Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space

Sagan, to me, has to be one of the greatest speakers/writers of the modern time. He can, in one phrase, both knock down religion and yet do it in such a way that he still manages to show it a degree of respect.

[The Grand Nudger]

[Fidel_Castronaut]

This thread is a pile of arse.

Op, I hope you feel bad.

[Harris]

[The Grand Nudger]

I think that's going to be alot harder for you to explain, than..say..me.

-It didn't happen.  "Mo' knew jack shit about a big bang...how could he have known....but you do.   See, explained.

.....now, if you could explain how an illiterate and uneducated man in a community of ignorant and arrogant muslims in the middle of the desert could have come by such knowledge...1,500 years ago......that'd be great!

[robvalue]

Any comment on ripping off my maths equations and writing unrelated stuff next to them in order to bolster an argument from ignorance?

[Pizza]

Why do people like Harris come here just to talk at us and not with us?

[Zen Badger]

So you think those bits of the quaran are actually talking about the Big Bang?
So do you think the universe is 14 billion years old?
Or do you think it is 6000 years old?

[robvalue]

I don't understand why theists are impressed when a book supposedly inspired by God gets a few things right.

I have a higher standard for science textbooks than they do for their infallible books.

Hell, I have a higher standard for emails I write.

[bennyboy]

If I am not mistaken, you seem to be little lost in your conviction of your truth.

First, you wanted to spread peace by turning your other cheek then you hopped over blaming God for the rape of your daughter, and next perhaps you would show your indifferent attitude to the morals since without God good and bad have no meanings.

Nothing about the Bible, or God, or Allah, is my truth, and I need to express no conviction in it. I do not accept your definition of a good God, because I can see much evil in the world, much of it inflicted on the innocent. I do not accept your definition of a just God, because I see foul swine who live and prosper, and pure children who are struck with disease and death.

Sexual sins in the first category are the worst: unnatural vice flouts nature by transgressing its basic principles of sexuality, so it is in this matter the gravest of sins. To the list of reasons unnatural sexual acts are wrong - they are dishonest, cruel, unfair, manipulative, coercive, exploitative, selfish or negligently dangerous. Mutual consent is, in the absence of third-party harm, sufficient for the morality of sexual acts and no law of God or nature need supplement this basic principle of proper relations among humans who are intelligent beings.

Bullshit. I do not believe that the Koran, or the culture which claims to adhere to it, care about mutual consent. Did women consent to be held under the thumbs of petty and jealous men?

It is evident that the bringing up of a human child requires the care of a mother who nurses him, and much more the care of a father, under whose guidance and guardianship his earthly needs are supplied and his character developed. Therefore, indiscriminate intercourse is against human nature. The union of one man with one woman is postulated, and with her he remains, not for a little while, but for a long period, or even for a whole lifetime.

And so you and yours impose these rules on others. Where, then, is their free will? Their freedom is to follow the views of scum like you, or to face punishment. What hubris you have, to think that you are capable of judging what is right or wrong, or that God needs your assistance in either judgment or in execution of punishment.

Adultery in Islam is one of the most heinous and deadliest of sins. The punishment of this sin for unmarried people is 100 lashes. If married people commit this sin then penalty is DEATH BY STONING. However, this law is much older than the RITUALS OF ANCIENT DESERT PEOPLE.

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Lev 20:10 (KJV)

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Lev 20:13 (KJV)

“A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: THEY SHALL STONE THEM WITH STONES: their blood shall be upon them.”
Lev 20:27 (KJV)

“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.”
Deut 22:22 (KJV)

You just quoted a bunch of ancient desert people. Time to join the 21st century, and benefit from the experiences of people who have discovered refrigeration (pork is okay now, dude) and personal hygiene (no more fear of "unclean" women on their *gasp* periods*), and running water.

Indeed, we (people) are the blend of virtue and vice. Virtue and vice are intellectual states. Vice is founded on passions: these are at root false value judgments, in which we lose rational control by overvaluing things, which are in fact indifferent. Virtue, a set of sciences governing moral choice, is the one thing of intrinsic worth and therefore genuinely good.

Because virtues and vices are settled practices of deliberately choosing good and bad courses of action and in parallel people have power of self-control therefore, punishment for deliberate sin is inevitable.

If your God is real, then it truly is inevitable. Why, then, do Muslim men take it upon themselves to establish these punishments and bring them to fruition? Is God too weak to judge his own creations by his own hand?

Remedy of spiritual illness (vice) is virtue. Along with vice and virtue God has given us freedom of choice and power of self-control. Our choices are deliberate acts therefore; we are accountable for our deeds.

Maybe, but not to you, or to your mosque, or to your uneducated leaders. If God is real, then let God judge me. But don't constantly declare your lack of faith in the reality of God by insisting that Dark Age punishments like stoning of raped women could be permissible in the eyes of a just God. If God is real, then my primary sin is that of using the senses He gave me, and the mind he bestowed on me, to consider ideas critically. You will fare much worse, as you support the suffering of others inflicted at the hand of proud men in the name of a God who could never have wanted such suffering.

You, and your outdated religion, are an offense to any real God who might exist.