If I were an Atheist

[abaris]

Have scientists reached an understanding of how the human mind exists? If we really are autonomous free will agents who can volitionally do things does that fall under the purview of the laws of nature? What law does that follow under?

Have you formed an opinion on how animal minds exist? Do you have any other authority than woo to rule them out? There's a lot of research going on right now about both animals and humans. And I'm certainly not the one claiming that one or the other doesn't have free will. But it doesn't take some sky daddy to take that for a reality. It also doesn't take some explanation from wonderland. Just evolution and the parts we just now start to understand.

I could write pages about cognitive science, but I have my suspicions that it would be a wasted effort with someone who obviously is in desperate need of some higher authority calling the shots in his life. If you're at all interested, do a google or look up some youtube vids.

[The Reality Salesman01]

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hi Salesman,

Thanks for providing a definition...

Supernatural: (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Agree or disagree are there are many phenomena currently beyond scientific understanding true? If so until such time as scientists understand such phenomena they are supernatural correct?

No. They are only supernatural if they are attributed to a force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

In other words, we may not understand why Katrina hit New Orleans instead of Galveston. Attributing that to God's anger over the Big Easy's immorality is supernatural. The event itself is not.

Saying "we don't know" is not the same as "we don't know, but it's a result of another force we don't understand."

[Whateverist]

Have scientists reached an understanding of how the human mind exists?

Have you formed an opinion on how animal minds exist? Do you have any other authority than woo to rule them out? There's a lot of research going on right now about both animals and humans. And I'm certainly not the one claiming that one or the other doesn't have free will. But it doesn't take some sky daddy to take that for a reality. It also doesn't take some explanation from wonderland. Just evolution and the parts we just now start to understand.

I could write pages about cognitive science, but I have my suspicions that it would be a wasted effort with someone who obviously is in desperate need of some higher authority calling the shots in his life. If you're at all interested, do a google or look up some youtube vids.

Great point. Perhaps there is a god of every species which have raised up each species to consciousness. So humbling.

[The Reality Salesman01]

I know my dog has free-will (In some capacity that allows options beyond instinctive reaction). When I have food on the table, he sits close by and starts staring at me. I tell him to "go look in your dish", and he goes. He walks up, looks in his dish, and then comes back to the table without eating a bite. If he was entirely behold unto his desire to eat and satisfy hunger, he would have eaten what was in his dish. Instead, he, dare I say "chooses" to wait for the off chance of something different. It's only when the last dish has been cleaned and put away that he'll go back and eat his own food but, not always. Some times he'll just go lay down somewhere. Now I don't have a clue what that means, but he's defeinitely deciding something when he turns away from that dish, and I certainly didn't force him.

[JuliaL]

Wait a minute.....


I am an atheist.


Walks away whistling.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know my dog has free-will (In some capacity that allows options beyond instinctive reaction). When I have food on the table, he sits close by and starts staring at me. I tell him to "go look in your dish", and he goes. He walks up, looks in his dish, and then comes back to the table without eating a bite. If he was entirely behold unto his desire to eat and satisfy hunger, he would have eaten what was in his dish. Instead, he, dare I say "chooses" to wait for the off chance of something different. It's only when the last dish has been cleaned and put away that he'll go back and eat his own food but, not always. Some times he'll just go lay down somewhere. Now I don't have a clue what that means, but he's defeinitely deciding something when he turns away from that dish, and I certainly didn't force him.

A table-scrap or two never hurt, man -- c'mon, have a heart.

Yes, I am your dog's lawyer.

[Whateverist]

My dog just waits to hear the sound of silverware scraping plate. Then she comes over ready to supply a prewash removal of particulate matter before it goes into the dishwasher. This she does freely both to please me and as its own reward.

[abaris]

I know my dog has free-will (In some capacity that allows options beyond instinctive reaction). When I have food on the table, he sits close by and starts staring at me. I tell him to "go look in your dish", and he goes. He walks up, looks in his dish, and then comes back to the table without eating a bite. If he was entirely behold unto his desire to eat and satisfy hunger, he would have eaten what was in his dish. Instead, he, dare I say "chooses" to wait for the off chance of something different.

Brian Hare currently is one of the leads into the dog mind. There are a bunch of videos up on youtube showing his work and some presentations. Theres also a center that studies dog cognition in Vienna. It's funny that dogs are with us for tens of thousands of years, but science only started to study their mind within the last decade or so.

[Mudhammam]

It's funny that dogs are with us for tens of thousands of years, but science only started to study their mind within the last decade or so.

What's not quite so funny is that science has been with us for hundreds of years, and people like Drew still exist.