Jesus' Sacrifice

[zebo-the-fat]

Never understood the "sacrifice on the cross" thing, he died then got better after 3 days and went home to his dad... more like an inconvenience than a sacrifice.

[Nope]

Drich wrote:

actually we need to see blood and suffering to know what the spiritual cost of our attonement

But we don't need to see blood and suffering to know someone made a sacrifice for us. The sacrificing person doesn't even have to die. For example, when parents work two jobs so their child can go to college we know that the parent has sacrificed for their child. Jewish people didn't believe that their was only one way to gain god's forgiveness and they are the ones who wrote the rules in the Old Testament.

The Christian story makes god seem like Ramsey Snow torturing Theon from Game of Thrones or Jigsaw from the Saw movies. Bible god decided to set up a weird game system with rules he created just so he could eventually torture himself for a few hours so humans could tell him how great he is.

[Cato]

I can't understand the knee skin shredding groveling by those that actually think there was some type of sacrifice. First of all, there was no need for any sacrifice since it's God we're supposedly talking about. Why was all the drama necessary? But, if it got God off, who am I to say anything about divine method acting.

There was supposed to have been some big sacrifice, but for what? A false promise I say. The wiggly air driven dancing balloons drawing attention to used car sales are just as significant. If God had eliminated war, hunger and suffering in exchange for this passion play then perhaps we could have serious conversations about sacrifice and the adulation that Jesus would then have earned. Since nothing really has come of it, this is just as worthy of our worship:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZlP1O06_lE

So, even if I were to accept the gospels as truth I would have a huge fucking problem with the utility of it all. Some god you have going there. Replace Jobu with Jesus and the following sums up my attitude towards Christianity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsjoFZEwAyI

[watchamadoodle]

I'm very interested now to find out more about the history of the jesus story, what it was originally like and how it got defiled from a nice story about human sacrifice into a stupid nonsensical story about human sacrifice.

Anyone have a good resource for this?

Here is a link to a hypothesized passion narrative that may have been an earlier source utilized by the writers of Mark. Scholars think the passion narrative existed, because the ways characters and locations are named doesn't make sense unless the narrative was written in an earlier political climate for people familiar with the geography around Jerusalem. Mark was written later for Gentile Christians.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/passion.html

[vorlon13]

Right, the tomb thing is stupid, if they wanted to be rid of an upriser the last thing they'd do is honour him with a fancy tomb. What a fucking stupid story.

You would think they would want to discard of the body in the most dishonorable way possible.

Inspired a line of thought there:

considering how horrific it would be to die in the boats, crucifixion might have been perceived at the time as liberal backsliding in regards to capital punishment.

Look how enlightened we are, we Romans crucify our condemned unlike the barbaric Bumfuckkanites who let them rot for 2 weeks !!!

And then those who are the Roman detractors would cite the relative speed of crucifixion as creeping laxity and evidence of the Romans are going soft and their liberal moral decay is actually encouraging more crime.

[Drich]

Drich wrote:

actually we need to see blood and suffering to know what the spiritual cost of our attonement

But we don't need to see blood and suffering to know someone made a sacrifice for us. The sacrificing person doesn't even have to die. For example, when parents work two jobs so their child can go to college we know that the parent has sacrificed for their child. Jewish people didn't believe that their was only one way to gain god's forgiveness and they are the ones who wrote the rules in the Old Testament.

The Christian story makes god seem like Ramsey Snow torturing Theon from Game of Thrones or Jigsaw from the Saw movies. Bible god decided to set up a weird game system with rules he created just so he could eventually torture himself for a few hours so humans could tell him how great he is.

In the op you said christ could have suffered more, and now you say he suffered too much...

Christ suffered and died to illustrate the pain and suffering/cost of salvation. These illustrations help us understand the very high price attonement cost God.

[Cato]

Christ suffered and died to illustrate the pain and suffering/cost of salvation. These illustrations help us understand the very high price attonement cost God.

Self-indulgent bullshit. God could have achieved the same goal without the supposed pageantry; which as I stated before, was practically worthless. If I am to believe the Bible, God comes across as a no talent prepubescent attention whore. God, the original Kardashian.

[Minimalist]

I think he fouled it off.

[Drich]

Christ suffered and died to illustrate the pain and suffering/cost of salvation. These illustrations help us understand the very high price attonement cost God.

Self-indulgent bullshit. God could have achieved the same goal without the supposed pageantry; which as I stated before, was practically worthless. If I am to believe the Bible, God comes across as a no talent prepubescent attention whore. God, the original Kardashian.

Ok, clato. In your opinion what is God trying to communicate with Christ on the cross, that could have been done another way?

[Mudhammam]

Ok, clato. In your opinion what is God trying to communicate with Christ on the cross, that could have been done another way?

Well God is unchanging and exists outside of time, remember? So he can't try to communicate anything. He's either doing it or he's not doing it. But in this case, it looks to me like your cartoon god is communicating a primitive, tribalistic, mythological notion about human wickedness and how to overcome the sense of separation that religious intuitions, since time immemorial, have found quite advantageous in creating between their subjects and the alter, since you know, diagnosing an imaginary sickness and then claiming to own the rights to a magical cure is great business when your costumers are generally very vulnerable and gullible. There's also the message that self-sacrifice is the most expedient way to be crowned, quite literally, among your peers, and that God desires nothing more than for his victims to suffer while he indulges in their cries for help with characteristic disregard for anything but his own pleasure.