How Muslims believed earth was spherical long before anybody mentions it.

[Mystic]

Why do you guys spend energy on this kind of stuff. I don't know why.

As a Muslim, do you agree with what the OP says?

I don't think Quran was the first to discover it and I don't know whether or not it was common knowledge that the earth was a sphere, but if you look at planets and you look at the sun, and you look at the moon, I would assume any smart person would assume the earth is round too. It doesn't take a special revelation or scientific knowledge to assume that, perhaps it does to know for certain, but not assume it as the best theory and the one to common sense.

This by no means is a miracle. I think it was common knowledge in many places.

[WinterHold]

As much as I wanted to keep commenting, actually what I expected did take place : everything turned & got evaluated to grammar corrections, under-the belt punches like straightforwardly accuse the author of being stupid,...etc. The typical nerd complex, that you would find in any cheap youtube comment section.

My point was proved, actually. This discussion was over, when this wikipedia said what I said :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

The Flat Earth model is an archaic belief that the Earth's shape is a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. It was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies.[1]
The modern misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the myth of the flat Earth.[6]

Proving my point that this was not the major belief in the world -despite the contribution of many fine scholars and their discoveries-, except in the Muslim world, since the constitution of every citizen was mainly the Quran, which stated this clearly as a matter of faith. -------> Claiming that you didn't get this line, or calling me stupid for forming it, does actually indeed make me question your IQ.

With that, my point is through. You either change the wikipedia articles, or my point is valid. The Quran is the only thing that made this theory famous, and largely adopted.

As for the typical "missionary complex" which many of the comments also had (without naming) ; so when I go against you in thought, I'm stupid, idiot, less smart than you thought I am ? that is a form of social terrorism to be honest with you, especially when you make the opposing side feels more inferior by picturing him as a clown -I didn't savor the effort to look like one ; though ; check my PP -. It's a defacto social terrorism, I've been here for 2 years, I totally know that once the crowd brings on the insult bag, opening up the sewer, it starts to smell funny and the discussion is actually over..

Ah humanity if you were more mature..

[LastPoet]

Ah humanity if you were more mature..

Do you want a hug or something?

[WinterHold]

Ah humanity if you were more mature..

Do you want a hug or something?

That cat looks evil.

[LastPoet]

Good

[WinterHold]

Good

Nope

[LastPoet]

Nope

Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, O enlightened one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y

[Norman Humann]

Ah humanity if you were more mature..

Do you want a hug or something?

Can I get one?

Um... nevermind. Don't kill me

[WinterHold]

This is post is continuation of my previous post which I didn’t finish because I was becoming too tired. I believe this post will mean I have responded on everything there was to respond to. If not, I'd like to know.

Didn't see that, sorry : )

People have always known entities fall so I see nothing miraculous in the verse. Saying that men can fall is nothing miraculous. The verses need to describe gravity in more detail for me to be conv. I could check the Tafsir for the verses you provided but I don’t think I need to.

Probably it was far-fetched from me, or even out of context & wrong.

I really don’t understand how the verses you have provided mention gravity. All they seem to be saying is that life is limited and that the Earth is a place of settlement, which of course it is. The Earth is where people live and in that sense the verse makes sense. I struggle to understand where gravity comes in.

It's pretty embarrassing but after a second, you do have a point..very, very embarrassing :/

I suppose my comment about the Crimean War was rather ignorant. The Ottomans were really only allies of convenience. I suppose, like Saudi Arabia. To be honest, I don’t think the Saudi establishment really likes my country. They only pretend so that they can get all that advanced technology. All that money that is spent on oil is recouped by selling advanced technology to the Saudis – particularly weaponry. I didn’t think there could be Sheikhs crazier than the Sheikh from the movie Salmon Fishing in the Yemen, but time again I have been proven wrong (it’s a great movie by the way).

That's war economy which is one of the basic factors in the middle east's sorrow. Actually, the gun producers prefer to "make contracts" with the most vicious beasts in the region, to be sure that the weapon would be used, or in some cases stocked in Millions.

All Arab countries are the same, that's what blew the Arab spring in the first place. The Arab dictators don't love, they take. Really, that's what they always did, cut your aid and they'll hate you. Bring it back & they're your best buddies.

In terms of Israel: Whenever there are enough believers they will try to working towards fulfilling prophecies in their religious texts in order to reassure believers. That’s why I laugh when people say that Arabs competing with each other to build ever taller buildings was predicted by Muhammad. It’s a rubbish prophecy because it’s something people can work towards and he never provided a timeframe for it.

Yep ; exactly. This Hadith could be actually been written during the time of the Umayyad empire entering spain, and competition starts between Sultans for building the largest & prettiest monument ; which caused fear to scholars, who in many times preached against excessive decoration and competing with cash.

Fanatics simply draw the new front of world war 3. Imagine if a Jewish militia was actually formed, and started to fight the "secular" Israel and fighting the whole Arab states, with ISIS, these two would cause the destruction of the region, because they wouldn't be seeking a coup d'etat, rather an armageddon scenario.

And yes, I remember Vlad Dracul. He was a strange one, although I can't help but feel that some of the stories about him are exaggerated. History is what people say happened and this may not be what actually happened. The Sykes–Picot Agreement is one of history's more disturbing events and it is shameful how one country can carve up another. Know that I will denounce Imperialism wherever it rears its ugly head.

There's that story, when he made a forest of impaled Ottoman soldiers, it was a disgusting story but the number was insane, 20,000 as far as I remember ! I mean, yep since I did call history not accurate at some point in this topic, the stories might be indeed exaggerated.

Sykes-Picot was just sad. But if it wasn't for some corrupted Arabs to give in for the imperialistic powers to cut an easy cake, this agreement couldn't have ever happened.

In regard to Venice, surely they benefited from having friendly relations with the Ottomans? Venice is not Rome and if you are good friends someone then they are more inclined to give you a better deal in trade. Venice, with it's love of economics, would have wanted to at least try to be friends with the Ottomans because their ships would have to pass through their seas to get the pepper, etc, from Arabia. Maybe they weren't that good friends but I think that they both benefited from the relationship that they had.

Well, then of course trader helped to benefit the economy of both states ; I think the generation of that time did get over the conflict sparked by the catholic church over jerusalem, isn't it when the secular movement started to appear ?

Most immigrants to my country are nice people. I happen to know a few and I am eternally grateful for the Kebab outlet near me. But there are some (insert rude words here). There are nasty people in every community, sure, but in particular I don’t like to see people out on streets who are promoting the vile ideology of Mr. Wahhab. There is too much money from Saudi Arabia in my country. I would hate to be taken back to the days of the Salaf.

enjoy that Kabab. I advice you furthermore to order a Thumeya and Tahini with it ^^

The problem with Wahhabi/Salafi faith, is that it forces itself upon you, since its followers do believe that converting others by force is an option. Thus it has dramatic reflection on society, and brings forth a negative atmosphere.

But fear not, their faith would not expand so greatly. Visit the middle east just to know how much have already converted to atheism under cover -mainly by just ignoring Islam-, or chose to advocate it loudly, in both cases Wahabbies are causing Muslims to leave their faith. They will not last long.

Finally, I will not dispute what you have said about Greek views on the inside of the Earth. It doesn’t seem relevant to the discussion anyway. People believe lots of crazy things and that is what ultimately led me to this forum. Reading the Quran made me want to become an Atheist even more, particularly because it contains the same ridiculous story of Noah’s (global) flood. Quran 11:42 mentions waves the size of mountains.

As for the scholars whose names you listed, at present I can’t be bothered to verify what you’ve said about them. I’m sure somebody else will. I am sure they are all very smart people though.

It's up to you as a matter of personal faith ; though I accept the whole book.

I really enjoyed my discussion with you, buddy. Thank you for the good comments

---

Nope

Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, O enlightened one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y

Oh please, and now I have a superiority complex too ?
Didn't though that my little head contains this much of sneaky tactics -_- you give me too much credit.

Mmmm sodomites..

[GrandizerII]

As much as I wanted to keep commenting, actually what I expected did take place : everything turned & got evaluated to grammar corrections, under-the belt punches like straightforwardly accuse the author of being stupid,...etc. The typical nerd complex, that you would find in any cheap youtube comment section.

My point was proved, actually. This discussion was over, when this wikipedia said what I said :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

The Flat Earth model is an archaic belief that the Earth's shape is a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. It was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies.[1]
The modern misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the myth of the flat Earth.[6]

Proving my point that this was not the major belief in the world -despite the contribution of many fine scholars and their discoveries-, except in the Muslim world, since the constitution of every citizen was mainly the Quran, which stated this clearly as a matter of faith. -------> Claiming that you didn't get this line, or calling me stupid for forming it, does actually indeed make me question your IQ.

With that, my point is through. You either change the wikipedia articles, or my point is valid. The Quran is the only thing that made this theory famous, and largely adopted.

As for the typical "missionary complex" which many of the comments also had (without naming) ; so when I go against you in thought, I'm stupid, idiot, less smart than you thought I am ? that is a form of social terrorism to be honest with you, especially when you make the opposing side feels more inferior by picturing him as a clown -I didn't savor the effort to look like one ; though ; check my PP -. It's a defacto social terrorism, I've been here for 2 years, I totally know that once the crowd brings on the insult bag, opening up the sewer, it starts to smell funny and the discussion is actually over..

Ah humanity if you were more mature..

There was no honest discussion from the beginning on your side. You're not interested in facts. Simple.